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On-Going TrainerRoad problem with matching power
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I wanted to see if anyone in the Slowtwitch community can help me out, since Trainerroad was not been able to resolve my problem in the last 4 days.


Problem:

**There is a 20-25 watt difference between the watts in TR and my Garmin readings. The low readings on my Garmin negatively impact my workout, because TR may have me at 220w for an interval, yet my Garmin has me at 195w. Thus, in order for me to hit 220w, I have to stop my workout, and jack up the % to 150% so it reads higher numbers on TR, and gets me to my watts on my head unit.



I understand that this problem can be fixed, perhaps, by the powermatch option under the tab “devices”. However, there is no powermatch option, but rather a powersmooth option that I tried, but the problem still persists.



Other Notes:


  • I have 3 different Garmin Ant sticks, so doubt that is the problem.

  • The readings are matched perfectly if I am on my road bike, but with my current set up on my tri bike, it’s whack

  • My trainer is a Tacx Neo

  • I noticed the Bluetooth on TR icon is “off”

  • When I go to “devices” to pair, it pairs with ANT/Trainer, HR monitor, and Speed/Cadence – that’s it. Should it be pairing with something else?

  • My head unit is a Garmin 800

  • Laptop is Windows Surface Pro

  • PM: Garmin Vectors2

Any held or advice is extremely appreciated! Thank you in advance




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Re: On-Going TrainerRoad problem with matching power [p3] [ In reply to ]
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I'm using the Mac desktop version of TR and under the profile tab there is a section titled "Power Meter + Electronic Trainer Interactions". The first option is "Use power meter to control electronic trainer". Not sure if all versions have it the same.

Having said that, I've never gotten power match to work on mine, and my Quarq and Kickr are consistently ~20 watts off.
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Re: On-Going TrainerRoad problem with matching power [p3] [ In reply to ]
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Yes trainerroad needs to pair with your powermeter. That's how powermatch works. It uses the output from you vectors to control the resistance to hit the intervals.

After you do this the data recorded in trainerroad will be directly from your vectors.

Strava I Instagram
Last edited by: Sean H: Jan 11, 18 12:12
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Re: On-Going TrainerRoad problem with matching power [Derekl] [ In reply to ]
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Is your Quarq giving the higher readings?
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Re: On-Going TrainerRoad problem with matching power [Scott_B] [ In reply to ]
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Scott_B wrote:
Is your Quarq giving the higher readings?

Nope. Always lower.

I just use my head unit to view my Quarq so that I have an idea of the offset for when I ride outside.
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Re: On-Going TrainerRoad problem with matching power [p3] [ In reply to ]
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You haven’t got Bluetooth as you dont have the BLED 112 dongle as per https://support.trainerroad.com/...h-Smart-Connectivity

Why do you have three ant+ dongles? You only need one though that’s better run from an extension like AmazonBasics USB 2.0 A-Male to A-Female Extension Cable 3 m / 9.8 Feet https://www.amazon.co.uk/...cp_tai_Es8vAbQGY0RM2 to place it closer to your trainer and power meter.

Sounds like trainerroad isn’t seeing your vectors? To match just check your neo’s settings within devices, there will be a match tab, hit auto, assuming trainerroad can then see your vectors.
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Re: On-Going TrainerRoad problem with matching power [Derekl] [ In reply to ]
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Hmmm. My Quarq is consistently 10-15W higher than the KICKR. No idea which one is more accurate.
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Re: On-Going TrainerRoad problem with matching power [p3] [ In reply to ]
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Is your "garmin" connected to your Vectors? If so, the difference you are noticing is simply the difference between the power reading of your Vectors (on your garmin) and your trainer (on TrainerRoad). Having a difference between a trainer power and an actual power meter is normal.

To resolve this, connect your Vectors to TrainerRoad in addition to your garmin. Once your Vectors are connected to TrainerRoad your will have the option to set "PowerMatch" under devices, after selecting your trainer. You want to set it to "Auto".

What PowerMatch will do is read the power from your Vectors and adjust your trainer's resistance so that you are pushing the target watts based on what your Vectors are reading and NOT based what the trainer is reading.

I hope this helps, and my apologies if I misunderstood your situation.
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Re: On-Going TrainerRoad problem with matching power [Scott_B] [ In reply to ]
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Scott_B wrote:
Hmmm. My Quarq is consistently 10-15W higher than the KICKR. No idea which one is more accurate.
The Quarq, at least, will let you measure and correct the slope if you have any concerns about the discrepancy. Most bike trainers are very difficult to verify except to use a known good power meter (for instance, your freshly validated Quarq) as a reference.
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Re: On-Going TrainerRoad problem with matching power [TennesseeJed] [ In reply to ]
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TennesseeJed wrote:
Is your "garmin" connected to your Vectors? If so, the difference you are noticing is simply the difference between the power reading of your Vectors (on your garmin) and your trainer (on TrainerRoad). Having a difference between a trainer power and an actual power meter is normal.

To resolve this, connect your Vectors to TrainerRoad in addition to your garmin. Once your Vectors are connected to TrainerRoad your will have the option to set "PowerMatch" under devices, after selecting your trainer. You want to set it to "Auto".

What PowerMatch will do is read the power from your Vectors and adjust your trainer's resistance so that you are pushing the target watts based on what your Vectors are reading and NOT based what the trainer is reading.

I hope this helps, and my apologies if I misunderstood your situation.

No, I think you got it. It's just when I click "devices" in order to pair, "Vectors" or "PM" or whatever, isn't lighting up to pair. The only option I have is "Ant/Trainer" ... which is not reading my Vector power....

So now my question is, how do I get my Vectors to light up and pair when I click "devices"?
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Re: On-Going TrainerRoad problem with matching power [Neila] [ In reply to ]
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Neila wrote:
You haven’t got Bluetooth as you dont have the BLED 112 dongle as per https://support.trainerroad.com/...h-Smart-Connectivity

Why do you have three ant+ dongles? You only need one though that’s better run from an extension like AmazonBasics USB 2.0 A-Male to A-Female Extension Cable 3 m / 9.8 Feet https://www.amazon.co.uk/...cp_tai_Es8vAbQGY0RM2 to place it closer to your trainer and power meter.

Sounds like trainerroad isn’t seeing your vectors? To match just check your neo’s settings within devices, there will be a match tab, hit auto, assuming trainerroad can then see your vectors.

How do you check Tecx Neo's settings??
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Re: On-Going TrainerRoad problem with matching power [p3] [ In reply to ]
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In your device list on trainerroad, one of them will be the neo, just click on that and it opens up the settings or profile for the neo.

Bit more on it here https://support.trainerroad.com/...74-ANT-FE-C-Trainers

Plus stuff about powermatch here. https://support.trainerroad.com/...-with-Smart-Trainers
Last edited by: Neila: Jan 11, 18 14:11
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Re: On-Going TrainerRoad problem with matching power [p3] [ In reply to ]
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p3 wrote:
TennesseeJed wrote:
Is your "garmin" connected to your Vectors? If so, the difference you are noticing is simply the difference between the power reading of your Vectors (on your garmin) and your trainer (on TrainerRoad). Having a difference between a trainer power and an actual power meter is normal.

To resolve this, connect your Vectors to TrainerRoad in addition to your garmin. Once your Vectors are connected to TrainerRoad your will have the option to set "PowerMatch" under devices, after selecting your trainer. You want to set it to "Auto".

What PowerMatch will do is read the power from your Vectors and adjust your trainer's resistance so that you are pushing the target watts based on what your Vectors are reading and NOT based what the trainer is reading.

I hope this helps, and my apologies if I misunderstood your situation.


No, I think you got it. It's just when I click "devices" in order to pair, "Vectors" or "PM" or whatever, isn't lighting up to pair. The only option I have is "Ant/Trainer" ... which is not reading my Vector power....

So now my question is, how do I get my Vectors to light up and pair when I click "devices"?

I am not sure, but if you have never paired your vectors to your Surface, you may need to download the appropriate garmin app and pair it through garmin. The first thing I would check would be to ensure the bluetooth is turned on on your Surface. Then pedal to make sure the Vectors are turned on. If you don't see the vectors on TrainerRoad then you need to paid them to your surface. You may be able to do that in the bluetooth settings (just search bluetooth on your Windows search bar), but again, you may need a garmin app for that, I am not sure. Hopefully someone else will weigh in, otherwise you can always go back to trainerroad support.
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Re: On-Going TrainerRoad problem with matching power [p3] [ In reply to ]
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I have a Tacx Neo and Garmin Vectors. I have also owned a Kickr in the past.

First of all you should assume the Tacx Neo is almost always giving you the right power. In my experience, it is the most likely to be correct.

One you accept the Neo is right, then you need to figure out why your Vectors don't match the Neo. Mine match within 1% all the time, as long as I follow these rules 1/ perform calibration often 2/ ensure they are torqued correctly 3/ make sure the crank length is correct in the Garmin head unit

Until you figure out the discrepancy with the Vectors, pair you Garmin with the Neo. Alternatively you can download the Workout file from Trainerroad.

However, don't try to force the Neo to match the power of the Vectors as others have suggested. That is just wrong.
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Re: On-Going TrainerRoad problem with matching power [Scott_B] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hmmm. My Quarq is consistently 10-15W higher than the KICKR. No idea which one is more accurate.

Having owned a Kickr, I know they are not accurate. I don't own a Quarq, but I understand they can be calibrated. If so, follow all the calibration instructions, and trust it as your power measure.

Alternatively find someone with a Neo, and borrow it so see if your Quarq is accurate.
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Re: On-Going TrainerRoad problem with matching power [roadguy] [ In reply to ]
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I’m going to try pairing my Quarq to my KICKR so that the same power numbers are used indoors and outdoors. I love the KICKR and the power discrepancy can be dealt with through power match.
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Re: On-Going TrainerRoad problem with matching power [p3] [ In reply to ]
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A ton of people have this problem including me. my kickr is 10 higher than my vectors my old vector were 25 differnt, my buddys power tap is 25 different .. but my kickr is a consistent 10 so no big deal my ftp on tr is based of the kickr. no need to have them match. don't do the power match stuff you have a trainer, test with it then train.
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Re: On-Going TrainerRoad problem with matching power [TennesseeJed] [ In reply to ]
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TennesseeJed wrote:
p3 wrote:
TennesseeJed wrote:
Is your "garmin" connected to your Vectors? If so, the difference you are noticing is simply the difference between the power reading of your Vectors (on your garmin) and your trainer (on TrainerRoad). Having a difference between a trainer power and an actual power meter is normal.

To resolve this, connect your Vectors to TrainerRoad in addition to your garmin. Once your Vectors are connected to TrainerRoad your will have the option to set "PowerMatch" under devices, after selecting your trainer. You want to set it to "Auto".

What PowerMatch will do is read the power from your Vectors and adjust your trainer's resistance so that you are pushing the target watts based on what your Vectors are reading and NOT based what the trainer is reading.

I hope this helps, and my apologies if I misunderstood your situation.


No, I think you got it. It's just when I click "devices" in order to pair, "Vectors" or "PM" or whatever, isn't lighting up to pair. The only option I have is "Ant/Trainer" ... which is not reading my Vector power....

So now my question is, how do I get my Vectors to light up and pair when I click "devices"?


I am not sure, but if you have never paired your vectors to your Surface, you may need to download the appropriate garmin app and pair it through garmin. The first thing I would check would be to ensure the bluetooth is turned on on your Surface. Then pedal to make sure the Vectors are turned on. If you don't see the vectors on TrainerRoad then you need to paid them to your surface. You may be able to do that in the bluetooth settings (just search bluetooth on your Windows search bar), but again, you may need a garmin app for that, I am not sure. Hopefully someone else will weigh in, otherwise you can always go back to trainerroad support.

Thank you, and thank you to everyone else! Fixed it! Had to pair BOTH trainer and Vectors. Had a fantastic workout tonight! Thank you!
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Re: On-Going TrainerRoad problem with matching power [Cookiebuilder] [ In reply to ]
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Cookiebuilder wrote:
A ton of people have this problem including me. my kickr is 10 higher than my vectors my old vector were 25 differnt, my buddys power tap is 25 different .. but my kickr is a consistent 10 so no big deal my ftp on tr is based of the kickr. no need to have them match. don't do the power match stuff you have a trainer, test with it then train.

I just don't agree with this at all. Absolutely 100% ALWAYS use power match. If you don't all you've got is two expensive bike components that only work in limited circumstances (the trainer indoors and the power meter outdoors) telling you, potentially, different things.

The whole point of power match is so that the power you work at on the trainer is the same power that you work at outside. I have a smart trainer and a power meter and not once have I ever worked off the power given by the trainer, there is no point. I use my power meter to control the output of the trainer. That way I know that 250 watts inside is the same 250 watts when riding outside. I don't have to do any calculations to work out whether I need to add or subtract from my power for it to be accurate.

Power match is dead simple. Connect your power meter to trainer road. Connect the smart trainer to trainer road. Tell trainer road (in the settings) that you want trainer road to take the readings from the power meter and power match. Trainer road will then display the power from the power meter and adjust the trainer accordingly. Done.
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Re: On-Going TrainerRoad problem with matching power [lbmxj560] [ In reply to ]
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^ +1 I use PowerMatch on an Elite Drivo + Quarq DZero. It's a little annoying how TrainerRoad makes the adjustments every 10(?) seconds, but I'm used to it and I feel confident that data is consistently measured both indoors and outdoors. (Folks on KICKRs get these crazy smooth graphs. On a Drivo + Quarq, it looks like the dog's breakfast, but I'm still hitting the interval targets, IF, and so forth)
Last edited by: JRT_Racing: Jan 12, 18 4:56
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Re: On-Going TrainerRoad problem with matching power [lbmxj560] [ In reply to ]
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lbmxj560 wrote:
The whole point of power match is so that the power you work at on the trainer is the same power that you work at outside. I have a smart trainer and a power meter and not once have I ever worked off the power given by the trainer, there is no point. I use my power meter to control the output of the trainer. That way I know that 250 watts inside is the same 250 watts when riding outside. I don't have to do any calculations to work out whether I need to add or subtract from my power for it to be accurate.

Agreed, I am not sure I have ever even seen my Kickr's power reading, it is irrelevant. For those not using Powermatch, it is not as simple as just mentally accounting for the offset during workouts. If you have a power meter, I feel like you should be using it to quantify and track your training load. I can't imagine trying to do that with two different FTPs because your indoor and outdoor power meters read differently.

JRT_Racing wrote:
^ +1 I use PowerMatch on an Elite Drivo + Quarq DZero. It's a little annoying how TrainerRoad makes the adjustments every 10(?) seconds, but I'm used to it and I feel confident that data is consistently measured both indoors and outdoors. (Folks on KICKRs get these crazy smooth graphs. On a Drivo + Quarq, it looks like the dog's breakfast, but I'm still hitting the interval targets, IF, and so forth)

The kickr power graphs look so smooth in TR because what is graphed is the power number the Kickr is set to at a given moment, NOT what the actual power number the person is outputting. In reality, a person using only the kickr and no power meter is producing output just as erratic as your graph displays.
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Re: On-Going TrainerRoad problem with matching power [TennesseeJed] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
The kickr power graphs look so smooth in TR because what is graphed is the power number the Kickr is set to at a given moment, NOT what the actual power number the person is outputting. In reality, a person using only the kickr and no power meter is producing output just as erratic as your graph displays.

Yes this is important to realise. The Kickr does not have a power meter (it actually physically does, but it doesn't use it with the latest firmware updates)

I think people missed my earlier point to the OP who is using a Neo. The Tacx Neo is known for its accuracy. If your power meter does not match the Neo, then you need to find out why. Making the Neo match an inaccurate power meter using power match seems odd to me.
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Re: On-Going TrainerRoad problem with matching power [roadguy] [ In reply to ]
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roadguy wrote:
Quote:
The kickr power graphs look so smooth in TR because what is graphed is the power number the Kickr is set to at a given moment, NOT what the actual power number the person is outputting. In reality, a person using only the kickr and no power meter is producing output just as erratic as your graph displays.


Yes this is important to realise. The Kickr does not have a power meter (it actually physically does, but it doesn't use it with the latest firmware updates)

I think people missed my earlier point to the OP who is using a Neo. The Tacx Neo is known for its accuracy. If your power meter does not match the Neo, then you need to find out why. Making the Neo match an inaccurate power meter using power match seems odd to me.

So you think the Neo is a more accurate power meter than a Quarq? First time I've ever heard somebody claim that.
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Re: On-Going TrainerRoad problem with matching power [Cookiebuilder] [ In reply to ]
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Cookiebuilder wrote:
A ton of people have this problem including me. my kickr is 10 higher than my vectors my old vector were 25 differnt, my buddys power tap is 25 different .. but my kickr is a consistent 10 so no big deal my ftp on tr is based of the kickr. no need to have them match. don't do the power match stuff you have a trainer, test with it then train.

This is interesting. Since reading this thread i put my powertap pedals on my kickr bike. Both calibrated, the pedals read consitently 30 watts higher then the kickr.....quite a boost for my ftp ego.
Do wonder which is the accurate one of the two.

I’m also going to try the powermatch. See what happens.

Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands
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Re: On-Going TrainerRoad problem with matching power [Derekl] [ In reply to ]
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So you think the Neo is a more accurate power meter than a Quarq? First time I've ever heard somebody claim that.

I don't know about the Quarq, but the Neo is within 1%, and doesn't need calibration. Super solid and consistent. I haven't seen a single review that disagrees with that assertion.

The original poster had vectors, which can be quite accurate if set up properly. My argument was that the OP should be using the Neo to figure out why the Vectors did not match, not force the Neo to match the Vectors. The OP did not do this, but is quite happy now, so will continue on in ignorance. OP will get fitter and continue riding, so I guess it doesn't matter that much.
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