In France where I live, the cycling community tends to say that the situation is not good, and getting worse, especially in big cities and/or touristic areas (Paris, Lyon, Marseille – and the mediterranean coast generally speaking).
I can personally attest the problems caused by the cellphone, and the general increase in impatience/aggressivness from the car drivers, particularly in urban areas (I live and commute in Paris, and train in the area). Let's note that the riding traffic has increased those last years in a few big cities that have implemented a self-service bike hiring system.
I don't feel the urge to quit the road yet, I think that's still OK, but some of my fellows do. I feel safer on the quiet back roads of the south-west of France, where I'm from.
The only other country where I have a history of training is Spain. It was fine on the back roads of Catalunya (north-east) and a dream come true in Lanzarote (rare and very cautious drivers).

I live in Slovakia and me and two of my friends have got hit by a car in 2016, one of them in Netherlands. Thankfully, no long-term damage was caused and only two bikes were lost. I know its an anomally and statistically its not that bad but I think I'll stay on trainer for some time.

The OP is allowing the drivers and texters to win. It's like not getting vaccinated because there's a tiny risk to yourself by doing so, ignoring that the point is to make society safer, not just you.

If enough people share the OP's point of view, those of us who actually enjoy riding the roads will be forced off of them by law.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

I'm in Michigan and have been riding on the roads since the 80s. If it's an American phenomenon I certainly haven't seen the change. I think it might be a perception problem. Data isn't showing an increase in traffic danger in the smartphone era.

It's more a matter of self preservation than "letting the texters win". Besides the usual distracted riving, I've also been grazed by numerous cars and trucks driven by good ol' boys trying to "teach me a lesson" by passing really close to me, even though I'm only six inches from the dirt shoulder.

With two kids and shitty post ACA insurance, I only ride outdoors during events and one particular part of Hwy 46 West, where the bike lane is literally as wide as a car lane for most of the ride.

In general, the US is not very cycling friendly. I don't know that it's that american drivers are worse necessarily but many hate that cyclists are on the road with them. Not sure about american tendencies to drive under the influence. It's certainly a problem and the penalties often are not harsh enough IMO. I don't know about other countries but where I've lived in the US many drivers don't want cyclists on the roads and get very impatient when you slow them down and they will buzz way too close to you. I wonder if this, in part, is a reason for the growing popularity of gravel riding.

I haven't been on my bikes in over two years for this very reason

I dont think you can let these experiences scare you. Stuff happens and yeah its scary but thats not a reason to not ride outside at all. Sure smart trainers are great but its honestly not the same feeling as riding outside and exploring. Even though potts trains only on his trainer year around, he did say that he does the occasional group ride or outdoor ride for handling skills... I guess both have their pros and cons.

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2020 Team Zoot MTN

We do let the motorist win when we change our habits though. Even worse, won't you create a more hostile environment when you decide to ride outside again?

Does seem like there is a bit of confirmation bias at play every time I see a "sad news from x" thread pop up on here and I think about putting my bike on the trainer and only taking it off on race day.

But at the macro level, the data says traffic accidents and fatalities are up (not necessarily bike vs auto) across the board year-over-year with distracted driving as a key contributor.

http://www.nsc.org/Connect/NSCNewsReleases/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=134

Was slowman going to collect data on measuring the risk of road riding and how to reduce it? I remember a discussion about it, but I don't recall seeing an analysis.

The second time I was hit by a car, it was 7:15am on a Saturday and there were no other cars on the road....wonder what she was doing. So, I'm not sure we're safe at any time of the day.

But isn't racing triathlon inherently more dangerous than riding on open roads w/ cars?

Ex.: some triathletes avoid riding outside—favoring the trainer—and lack safe bike-handling skills, making them a danger to themselves, and competitors around them.

Maybe just stay stay off of the roads all together?

We'd all be safest that way.

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Right, this goes back to some of the OUS posters on this thread and then the OPs. It is a bit irrational, people don't actually give things much thought. Listen, I can ride any time of the day I want to ride, I would choose between 9am & 3pm as the most safe times. Early in the morning you have a couple of people IMO, people that are still drunk and impaired and people rushing to work, drop the kids off etc. This is compounded by the effect that the sun is low in the sky and visibility can be challenging.

What I want to see is more cycling data. I want to see incidents per 1,000,000 hours of biking or something like that and broken up into 30 minute increments of the day as well. I would also like to break it up between casual rec riders and then the people who just bum around on bikes. If the study was designed correctly, which it never would be, I think we would see the majority of incidents (based on a per hour basis) happen between 6:30am - and 8:30am and then a bump maybe sometime in a window around 1 hour before sunsets.

It amazes me, although I have never been to Europe I should have probably been born there. The culture in the US is to drive, drive, drive. "Accidents" scare off more bikers, and then it becomes even more dangerous as people don't expect to see bikers. We need more people biking, and frankly, less rec riding as well. If people were to do more errands by bike, I am confident they would not only enjoy it, but it would create a safer cycling community.

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Agree, i wasnt saying anyone would be 100% safe just bc there's less cars, but I do believe if there's less cars on the road then statistically the risk is just lower than it would be under crowded road conditions. It's not 100% safe, it's just safER relative to other times.

Maybe. But even those that favor the trainer at least occasionally venture outside. If you're talking draft legal triathlon then to develop safe bike-handling skills you need to be out riding with other people in close proximity. For non-draft legal, safe bike-handling skill requirements are not that great. Not saying zero but you shouldn't be up close to people during a race. you're on paved roads with normally some level of traffic control.

I'm not a big fan of riding on the roads due to safety concerns but I have some places I am reasonable comfortable riding. But I'm definitely exploring doing more gravel riding.

My previous comment was not snarky enough... you took it too seriously. But, I'll play.

Safe NDL-racing bike-handling skills (most of) which cannot be practiced on a trainer or rollers:
- hazard avoidance (eg, bunny-hopping an expansion joint, dodging an errant bottle, etc.)
- comfortable passing/being-passed on a closed-circuit, high-speed course
- cornering and passing/being-passed shoulder to shoulder in high-race-traffic environments
- mount/dismount w/o crashing out others
- staying upright in a feed zone
- knowing how to stop while riding out a flat
- riding w/ one hand while eating and drinking (even if just a few times for only a few seconds each time)
- cornering safely (no inside pedal down, etc.)

Gravel is a ton of fun. :)

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A lot of uptight, impatient, "My needs are more important than yours" type of people here in the U.S unfortunately. I've been to DK many times and people in general show respect to those on bicycles. It really comes down to common courtesy.

Hello Thomas Gerlach and All,

To your points ...

http://www.pedbikeinfo.org/.../factsheet_crash.cfm

Discussion of bicycle crash statistics ..


https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/...ewPublication/812261

Time of day … Page 154 …. For cyclists killed 1500 to 2400 most dangerous time of day … and 1200 to 2400 for injuries.

In general .... automotive advances look to help the safety of cyclists on the roads ...

"As part of a major revision for the 2017 model year, the popular Nissan Rogue crossover now includes the widest range of available advanced technology features ever.

For example, adding to the list of previously available Nissan Safety Shield technologies such as radar-based Blind Spot Warning (BSW) and Rear Cross Traffic Alert (RCTA) (both now standard on Rogue SV grade in addition to Rogue SL), the 2017 Rogue is also available with Lane Departure Warning (LDW) and Lane Departure Prevention (LDP).

Two additional Safety Shield technologies that are newly available for 2017 are Intelligent Cruise Control (ICC)1 and Forward Emergency Braking with Pedestrian Detection2. Intelligent Cruise Control uses radar to maintain a set distance between the Rogue and the vehicle ahead, even braking to help maintain that distance."

Further advances in 'self driving' motor vehicles look promising.

Another factor that will help cyclists is the movement in cities across the US to add many miles of bicycle infrastructure which increases safety and the number of cyclists.

Education and Sharrows will help too.

We should note that bicycle commuters cannot get where they are going on a bike trainer.

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Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

Just skimming over the info, there is definitely a lot of stuff there. Interesting to see just how frequent "accidents" involve alcohol, either the drunk cyclist or drunk driver. I really think drunk cyclist, and cyclists taking risky behavior, ie, riding at night without lights really ads up.

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i'm with you. im borderline petrified to be on the road. our roads arent great as they get chopped up during the winter time and they are very curvy and winding type. but as cars get wider and the sides of the roads are filled with tree parts, garbage, dead animals, etc... not much room for us cyclists. drivers are distracted. be it kids, tons emails, text messages, facebook, twitter.... people cant stop looking at their phones. i went for a run this afternoon and almost got clipped. unless i'm out there before 6:00am, forget it.

I agree those can't be practiced on a trainer but I'm hoping that at least most of those people can manage fairly easily. Of course that certainly is not always the case. now I have to think about the one's on your list I've practiced.

- hazard avoidance. I've had to unintentionally practice that. (avoid squirrels among other things). In my last HIM I had to just bite the bullet and hit a water bottle. It flew out late, I was passing somebody, and I was better off hitting it than swerving all over the place.
- passing people. I do suppose I see far too many people not bother to look when they swing out to pass somebody. almost worse are the ones who don't look and point a finger out which is always too late.
- cornering. can't say I'm great but I at least know my limitations and can keep a reasonable line
- mounting/dismounting - I can't say I'm fast but I'm predictable
- knowing how to stop while riding out a flat - any tips on this? I've flatted once on a training ride. Heard and felt the pop from a pinch flat and slowly came to a stop.
- riding w/one hand while eating and drinking - I have specifically practiced this
- cornering - yay me! I practice this.

I think for me it's always important to know one's limitations. For stuff I don't do well, I at least try to make sure I'm safe about it which can mean just being cautious about it. For example, I don't do flying mounts so I make sure to walk far enough past the mount line and to the right so I'm out of the way of people who are mounting their bikes more quickly than I am.

The answer to every question posed is the same: ride outside more—and more frequently. :)

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I completely disagree with this point of view. If you have read all of the OPs statements you will see that he is expecting a 1st child in the near future. When he is riding, he is not the problem. The drivers are. I am sure half or more of those who responded have put their face in their phone while driving and have also "tried" to do a "quick" text while weaving over the line. I guess I am surprised to read some responses that basically allude to the OP for being weak-minded and a wuss if he stops riding the roads. All it takes is for one idiot to change his family's life forever-whether it is paralysis or death. Let the guy stop riding if he wants, at least he has made a calculation of what is MORE important in his life. Riding a bike, or living to enjoy his family.

Thanks for the recap of everything that was said. I still stand by what I said. I know people freak out about people on phones but it's never going to go away. I am worried that I am going to get hit by a car again but there are ways to ride safely. Find trails or less traveled routes to ride on. Literally never said he was a wuss or weak minded so don't call me out... if he doesn't want to do it then that's his call. It's an open post and I gave my suggestion

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