Not impressed with fawlty swim function in PolarV800 and Garmin?

Mar 2, 15 4:33

Post #1 of 38 (3898 views)

I�m an avid Polar user. Started using their products already in 1991.
Tried the Garmin 910 XT (which was labelled a "triathlon" product") but was put off by it�s extremely random measuring of distance in open water and it�s general user-unfriendlyness.

However, just got the PolarV800, which is supposed to be top of the line. Quite similar to the new Garmin 920xt as far as I understand.

The ONLY reason for me to get such an advanced monitor is to use the monitoring system regarding activity and recovery, that the software provides (in order for it to work you need to always wear the heart rate strap). That, and the GPS. Besides that I could still have used my Polar from 2002 which had perfect heart rate monitoring. In order for it to work you need to always wear the heart rate strap!

However, the practical application for swimming with this monitor is extremely unpractical! I would go so far as to call it fawlty. The reason being that you need to wear both the watch and the heart rate strap while swimming. Which, as any serious swimmer knows, is an impossibility!

Explain to me how I�m supposed to use the swim function (regarding heart rate and intensity) in a pool, without using a wetsuit or a women suit? The real life application of this function is extremely under developed. Any serious swimmer knows that a chest worn monitor never sits in place at all through flip turns, stream line and the actual swimming. Not to mention actually having to wear a watch while swimming, which is also something a "real" swimmer never would do.

Not only that, you can�t even manually record the swim session in the current Polar Software. So, a 6 k� interval workout in the pool goes unrecorded for the overall sum that goes in to account for recovery and training status. Which basically makes that function totally useless.

I can think of a number of possible solutions for this problem, one being a head worn monitor to put on the goggle strap beneath the swim cap.

Can�t understand that we as users accept such lame functionality. I get extremely turned off by companies and products that sell on functions that are either under developed or very unpractical.

Last edited by: Jonas: Mar 2, 15 5:19

Re: Why do we accept fawlty swim function in PolarV800 and Garmin? [Jonas] [ In reply to ]

Mar 2, 15 4:46

Post #2 of 38 (3879 views)

If you want to wear a HR strap when swimming, just wear a tri suit or swim skin.

I gave up on Polar when they decide to ignore ANT and stick to their own thing. I still like my old school S625X though.

Re: Why do we accept fawlty swim function in PolarV800 and Garmin? [Nobbie] [ In reply to ]

Mar 2, 15 4:48

Post #3 of 38 (3873 views)

Yeah but that�s the thing. When did you see someone wearing a tri suit during a swim workout in a pool?

Nobbie wrote:

If you want to wear a HR strap when swimming, just wear a tri suit or swim skin.

I gave up on Polar when they decide to ignore ANT and stick to their own thing. I still like my old school S625X though.

Re: Why do we accept fawlty swim function in PolarV800 and Garmin? [Jonas] [ In reply to ]

Mar 2, 15 4:51

Post #4 of 38 (3871 views)

First of all, this story seems to completely focus on the Polar, so why lump in the Garmin? What's unfriendly about it? And why do you need it to report so accurately open water distances? Just swim for time or measure the distance on a map, or put the watch in your swimming cap. As far as the Polar HR thing, why do you trust some software algorhythm that is completely based on HR to tell you how to recover? I would advise you to stick to your training plan/coach and/or listen to your body, not your watch. Do you also take a right turn when your GPS navigation says so even though there's no road to turn onto? It seems to me like you're saying: the watch didn't (couldn't) record the workout, so it might as well not have happened. Or at the very least, I don't know how much recovery to take now. Does your watch also know what's going on in your personal life, how much stress your job is causing you, and whether that bean taco you just ate may have had some rotten avocado in it, causing your stomach to act funny?

Re: Why do we accept fawlty swim function in PolarV800 and Garmin? [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]

Mar 2, 15 5:01

Post #5 of 38 (3854 views)

You�re missing the entire point.

First of all, if the Garmin markets itself as a "triathlon watch" and does all their hoopla marketing around triathlon, and STILL fails in measuring open water correctly (actually most of the time it�s not even in the ball park!), you don�t think it�s a problem?
Measure on a map? Wait, are we still in the 70�s?

Second of all. I�m not at all relying on any software to gauge my progress/recovery but I would at least want to use the software as a training diary. And I would like my swims to count! Without having to show up at swim workout looking like an idiot (i.e in a wetsuit)

Thirdly, Garmin and Polar both require the heart rate monitor for swimming to count. And yes, I find the Garmin in general to be very user unfriendly. At least the 910txt.

Last edited by: Jonas: Mar 2, 15 5:06

Re: Why do we accept fawlty swim function in PolarV800 and Garmin? [Jonas] [ In reply to ]

Mar 2, 15 5:09

Post #6 of 38 (3839 views)

what you should do is look at the hrm straps that all of the D1 collegiate swimming programs use and use that one.

Re: Why do we accept fawlty swim function in PolarV800 and Garmin? [MeltingPot] [ In reply to ]

Mar 2, 15 5:13

Post #7 of 38 (3827 views)

Thanks!
Where do I find them? And why wouldn�t Polar just have them come with the monitor or as part of their product range?

Re: Why do we accept fawlty swim function in PolarV800 and Garmin? [Jonas] [ In reply to ]

Mar 2, 15 5:26

Post #8 of 38 (3808 views)

Jonas wrote:

Thanks!
Where do I find them? And why wouldn�t Polar just have them come with the monitor or as part of their product range?

see below. you'll see it on the deck of virtually every single good collegiate swim program. what you wont see, is fast swimmers screwing around with polar or garmins or whatever other bullshit devices triathletes like to add to complicate things.

Re: Why do we accept fawlty swim function in PolarV800 and Garmin? [Jonas] [ In reply to ]

Mar 2, 15 5:39

Post #9 of 38 (3787 views)

Jonas wrote:

You�re missing the entire point.

First of all, if the Garmin markets itself as a "triathlon watch" and does all their hoopla marketing around triathlon, and STILL fails in measuring open water correctly (actually most of the time it�s not even in the ball park!), you don�t think it�s a problem?
Measure on a map? Wait, are we still in the 70�s?

Second of all. I�m not at all relying on any software to gauge my progress/recovery but I would at least want to use the software as a training diary. And I would like my swims to count! Without having to show up at swim workout looking like an idiot (i.e in a wetsuit)

Thirdly, Garmin and Polar both require the heart rate monitor for swimming to count. And yes, I find the Garmin in general to be very user unfriendly. At least the 910txt.

1. I wasn't aware that Garmin HR straps worked under water.
2. I've found that my 310xt is fairly accurate in open water. Not down to the nearest meter but then GPS doesn't work under water either.

jaretj

Re: Why do we accept fawlty swim function in PolarV800 and Garmin? [MeltingPot] [ In reply to ]

Mar 2, 15 5:51

Post #10 of 38 (3776 views)

true that!

Re: Why do we accept fawlty swim function in PolarV800 and Garmin? [Jonas] [ In reply to ]

Mar 2, 15 5:58

Post #11 of 38 (3769 views)

Jonas wrote:

Thanks!
Where do I find them? And why wouldn�t Polar just have them come with the monitor or as part of their product range?

woosh

Last edited by: Clempson: Mar 2, 15 5:59

Re: Why do we accept fawlty swim function in PolarV800 and Garmin? [MeltingPot] [ In reply to ]

Mar 2, 15 6:04

Post #12 of 38 (3760 views)

MeltingPot wrote:

what you should do is look at the hrm straps that all of the D1 collegiate swimming programs use and use that one.

Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Re: Why do we accept fawlty swim function in PolarV800 and Garmin? [Jonas] [ In reply to ]

Mar 2, 15 6:23

Post #13 of 38 (3740 views)

I am not sure I have ever had a HUGE issue with my 910 in open water not measuring "in the same ball park". What you have to remember is if it is on your wrist every time it goes under water it can lose satilitte. Now I am not sure any brand, watch, company, can create a watch that is cost effective (or at all) that can read a GPS signal when it is a few feet under water.

And why does Garmin require HR in the pool to monitor things? sTSS is calculated by swim pace. So not sure where you are going with this but how about you track times of your 100s,200, etc to monitor your improvements? Seems to work for most people.

Twitter - Instagram

Re: Why do we accept fawlty swim function in PolarV800 and Garmin? [jrielley] [ In reply to ]

Mar 2, 15 6:31

Post #14 of 38 (3723 views)

His stroke rate is obviously to low, that's why Garmin keeps losing signal...

Re: Not impressed with fawlty swim function in PolarV800 and Garmin? [Jonas] [ In reply to ]

Mar 2, 15 6:59

Post #15 of 38 (3676 views)

Is fawlty the same as brifters?

Proud Representative of Slowtwitch Anti-Atheists Society.

Re: Not impressed with fawlty swim function in PolarV800 and Garmin? [Jonas] [ In reply to ]

Mar 2, 15 7:07

Post #16 of 38 (3662 views)

Both my 910xt and 920xt seem to measure open water swims with as much accuracy as I think can be expected. How do you actually know how far you swam in open-water? And how are you so sure of your own precision?

They work just fine as pool devices using the push-off-the-wall-acceleration to count laps.

Not sure what the point of recording your heart rate in the water is. If it was really easy to do I would like to have the data, sure. But since it isn't really that easy to do without cumbersome chest straps and such, I am fine without it.

Re: Why do we accept fawlty swim function in PolarV800 and Garmin? [MeltingPot] [ In reply to ]

Mar 2, 15 7:37

Post #17 of 38 (3639 views)

+1

No real swimmer would waste an ounce of energy on these devices.

If you are that hard up for HR learn how to take it at your wrist and multiply by 6. Duhh

Re: Why do we accept fawlty swim function in PolarV800 and Garmin? [HomerJSimpson] [ In reply to ]

Mar 2, 15 7:45

Post #18 of 38 (3635 views)

HomerJSimpson wrote:

No real swimmer would waste an ounce of energy on these devices.

This is a stupid assertion. Just because you don't use wrist-based timing devices when swimming competitively in swim-meet scenarios doesn't mean these devices are not for "real swimmers". They are useful for triathletes who wish to be able to record their training. They are useful for tri coaches who like to see what their athletes are doing. They are useful for pacing LONG swims like triathletes tend to do.

Re: Why do we accept fawlty swim function in PolarV800 and Garmin? [noofus] [ In reply to ]

Mar 2, 15 7:50

Post #19 of 38 (3631 views)

Record Training = write your workout down.

Coaching = send you workout to your coach

Pacing = use a pace clock on pool deck

Yes they are useful for an open water swim - which lends itself to wearing a HR monitor under a trisuit or wetsuit. You don't need one in a pool environment, plenty of other ways to gauge your workout if you have a clue about what you are doing.

Re: Why do we accept fawlty swim function in PolarV800 and Garmin? [HomerJSimpson] [ In reply to ]

Mar 2, 15 7:55

Post #20 of 38 (3627 views)

HomerJSimpson wrote:

Record Training = write your workout down.

Coaching = send you workout to your coach

Pacing = use a pace clock on pool deck

Yes they are useful for an open water swim - which lends itself to wearing a HR monitor under a trisuit or wetsuit. You don't need one in a pool environment, plenty of other ways to gauge your workout if you have a clue about what you are doing.

Sure - I already have my workout written down in training peaks. That doesn't really help much if I just push the "completed as planned" button. So you want me to write down every split? At the end of every interval? Or am I supposed to remember my splits for every interval and write them down and email them to my coach later?

Or...you know...I could just push one button when I finish an interval and one when I start swimming again, and it automagically does all of that work for me. We evolved to be smart organisms that use tools. Why would you purposely ignore a powerful tool in favor of an inaccurate and complicated system?

Re: Why do we accept fawlty swim function in PolarV800 and Garmin? [noofus] [ In reply to ]

Mar 2, 15 7:58

Post #21 of 38 (3620 views)

Yes, because it is so hard to remember your splits. Or better yet just use a stop watch if that is what you are worried about.

Do you know how to use a pace clock by chance?

Re: Why do we accept fawlty swim function in PolarV800 and Garmin? [HomerJSimpson] [ In reply to ]

Mar 2, 15 8:02

Post #22 of 38 (3612 views)

HomerJSimpson wrote:

Yes, because it is so hard to remember your splits. Or better yet just use a stop watch if that is what you are worried about.

Do you know how to use a pace clock by chance?

I would think it *IS* hard to remember all of your splits when you are doing something like 20x100 on a 1:35 interval (or whatever). Of course I use a pace clock when doing something like that. It is too easy to mis-count laps in a long interval (was that 400? or 450? I cant remember. Wait, I can try to guess based on when I left. Oh wait I forgot what the minute hand said when I pushed off the wall. Damn) Or how many of those 20x100 did I just do? (Crap was that #14? Or 16?).

Or... I could just use this handy dandy thing that does the counting for me so I can forget about trying to remember all this crap and just get the work done.

I find this opposition to a basic lap counting device by so-called "real swimmers" to be utterly hilarious.

Re: Why do we accept fawlty swim function in PolarV800 and Garmin? [noofus] [ In reply to ]

Mar 2, 15 8:10

Post #23 of 38 (3601 views)

Ohh boy, 20x100 a long set. Hard to remember when you left looking at the pace clock.

Yes because lap counters are used by so many swimmers in practice.

I can clearly see you do need this device.

Re: Why do we accept fawlty swim function in PolarV800 and Garmin? [HomerJSimpson] [ In reply to ]

Mar 2, 15 8:16

Post #24 of 38 (3595 views)

HomerJSimpson wrote:

Ohh boy, 20x100 a long set. Hard to remember when you left looking at the pace clock.

Yes because lap counters are used by so many swimmers in practice.

I can clearly see you do need this device.

Your argument is not much different than "I don't need a smart phone because I survived the first 40 years of my life without one"

Whatever - I am not telling you that *you* need it. I am saying that criticizing anyone as "not a real swimmer" because they choose to actually use some small bit of technology that you never used before is dumb.

Re: Why do we accept fawlty swim function in PolarV800 and Garmin? [noofus] [ In reply to ]

Mar 2, 15 8:17

Post #25 of 38 (3592 views)

I get the desire to record everything, and how in theory it's not any more cumbersome to hit the lap button on a Garmin while swimming than it is while running, and yes it would be nice to know exactly how on a set of 100s on 1:15, when I came in at 1:08 and then watch the slide from 1:09 to 1:10, followed by the "last one fast one" rally back to 1:08. I get it from track workouts, watts on the bike, etc.
The opposition for me comes from this: using a pace clock and having a functional memory is about a 90% solution to the problem. I may not know exactly what splits I hit, but I can tell coach "they were all 1:08 to 1:11, and I gradually slid a little bit except the last one." Couple that with what I see is a giant downside to have to wear something, especially something so big, on my wrist when I swim. It's a combination of water feel and also putting lanemates at risk for a broken hand why "real swimmers" don't like to wear anything on their wrists and hands, even including wedding bands often.

Our Partners

transition-DOT-area-AT-slowtwitch-DOT-com

Advertise with us

©1999-2024 Slowtwitch, Inc., and Slowtwitch.com
Reproduction of material from any Slowtwitch.com page
without written permission is strictly prohibited.