I would presume it is because they are racing. The margins are probably such that if they were to flat, they probably would be out of the race anyways. Personally, I carry a spare. But then the race leaders are never in any danger of me passing them. Unless they flat!

Bernie

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"Slowbern has always made astute observations."-Casey 03/10/2009
2013-2014 Detroit Lions---13-3 until proved otherwise.

I would presume it is because they are racing. The margins are probably such that if they were to flat, they probably would be out of the race anyways.

I don't know if that's true. How long does it take a competent person to fix a flat? (Not being competent, I honestly have no idea.) Take a look at some of the margins of victory in the USAT nationals. It isn't exactly as if every age group is won by split seconds.

And do a lot of front runners really put such a high priority on winning that anything else might just as well be a DNF?

Even if that's the case, what do they do when they get a flat out on the course and bag the race? Walk back in their socks?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I race at the pointy end of my little-pond local sprint triathlons and duathlons, as you know. I don't know anyone in the group against whom I'm racing who carries any equipment in case of a flat. Nobody. Not a pump, not a bag, nothing in the pockets.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

I don't know anyone in the group against whom I'm racing who carries any equipment in case of a flat. Nobody.

I believe you. I just don't understand why.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Socks? Pros don't wear no stinking socks!

Actually, I have seen many people running barefoot, pushing their bikes, with the shoes clipped in the pedals.

As for me, I carry a spare cause I ain't gonna run no 9 miles barefoot.

I want every aero second I can get. Frame pump or a seat bag won't help (how much they might hurt, I don't know). Heck, I take off the frame bottle cage. I wear nothing that flaps. I go for the sunny day scenario, knowing that the rainy day scenario will be worse as a result.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

I go for the sunny day scenario, knowing that the rainy day scenario will be worse as a result.

OK. Keep your fingers crossed!

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Actually, I have my family and friends pray for me.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

 
And do a lot of front runners really put such a high priority on winning that anything else might just as well be a DNF?

Yes, I think some of them do.


Even if that's the case, what do they do when they get a flat out on the course and bag the race? Walk back in their socks?

I imagine there is some sort of Neutral support or SAG Wagon that comes along eventually.

How long does it take a competent person to fix a flat?

I have changed out my own tire in about 6-7 minutes. But ever since I changed tires to the Michelin Axial Pros, it takes a lot longer. That bead is just SO tight. I would guess that a lot of these high end racers are riding tubulars though, which I understand can be changed much quicker.

Maybe this is just one of those myths that are out there!

Bernie

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"Slowbern has always made astute observations."-Casey 03/10/2009
2013-2014 Detroit Lions---13-3 until proved otherwise.

I have placed in sprint races in spite of flats. I had a bad run last year with flats in three races. I have also been in a race where probably half of the participants flatted. I refuse to concede just because I flat. I may say naughty words though.

I consider myself reasonably competent at changing a flat clincher. Factoring in the time: recognize flat, slow to stop, dismount, retrieve tools, remove wheel, unseat bead, remove tube, check for debris, insert tube, reseat bead, inflate, install wheel, return tools, mount, accelerate to speed. I'd say I can't do this all in less than 3 minutes. I'm not even sure I could do it that fast. In an oly or less that's competitive, 3 minutes is a lot of time. It basically means you need to run 30 seconds per mile faster to get the same time. I can't suddenly pull 30s/mile out of my ass.

It's just a different mentality than you seem to have. Some people race to win or race for a time goal. If they can't acheive that, it's over for them and a DNF isn't that big of a deal. It's 'win at all costs' instead of 'finish at all costs'.

In an oly or less that's competitive, 3 minutes is a lot of time. It basically means you need to run 30 seconds per mile faster to get the same time. I can't suddenly pull 30s/mile out of my ass.

Three minutes is a lot of time, and if you were racing seriously to start with, you aren't going to make it up- it's time lost. But it might or might not affect your placing. It might mean you don't win your age group, but you still place second or third. Which I would think is still preferable to DNF, but you're right that maybe that's a different mindset.

Check out the times across the various age groups at the USAT nationals.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

when I race I AM RACING TO WIN OR FINISH A NEW PR. so if I get a flat my race is over and there is no reason to worry about fixing a flat. I just put my head down and start my long walk back to T2 and to start my run. Not carrying a spare saves you 1 lb. of weight in you bike pack. that adds up to a lot carbon components.

but that is only for short course races, when I race 70.3 races I always have a spare, just finishing an IM is an accomplishment and I am typically pretty far off from the top spots. I typically finish middle FOP.

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GO4 SMOOOOOOTH AND FAST

1) Time - as folks have mentioned

2) Ability - Going from max HR to standing in order to concentrate is pretty damn tough.

3) Mental - Tough to rebound, just ask Normann

4) Pride - Some folks just think walking back gives them a better excuse on why they didn't win the race. Triathletes seem to like the "could have" discussion.

I think its mostly numba 4.......

I still can't get my mind around why people give up due to set backs.

You've done the training the preparation, you probably already have planned a recovery period, why just give up? What is there to lose from pushing through adversity and completing what you set out to do?

I've been hit by a race support car before, completely wiped out and blown a tire in the process. I could hardly move the next day but dropping out of the race didn't even cross my mind, I repaired the puncture, got back on my bike one legged the rest of the ride and hopped / limped to the finish line. My times where crap compared to normal but I still consider that one of my better races because no matter what happened I would not give up. The only races I'll not finish are when they carry me off the course!

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http://www.nunnsontherun.com

Much of the time, it depends on the race, and how often you are racing. If you race every weekend, dropping out of 1 or 2 doesn't really mean a whole lot. I usually don't race with a spare (mostly small, local sprint distance events) but if I do get a flat, I will often go back to the start/finish and see if there is anything I can help out with.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I think you miss the point. It's not giving up, it's living to fight another day. At the sprint and oly distance, there's always another race next weekend so you can bag one in favor of the next. Going all out wire to wire is what some people set out to do. A stop for a flat ends that. In fact, picking back up after a flat could prevent someone from really bouncing back to 'race' the following weekend.

As for "completing what you set out to do", you really miss the point here. For some, "what they set out to do" is win. Or hit a PR. Once you've flatted, that becomes impossible (assuming you're at the point where gains are marginal). The ability to finish is a known quantity and presents no challenge to these athletes. Finishing in a certain place or time is what trips their trigger.

You have the 'finish or else' mentality. They have the 'win or else' mentality. Each is for a person with different athletic goals.

[quote]
You have the 'finish or else' mentality. They have the 'win or else' mentality. Each is for a person with different athletic goals. [/quote]

Maybe different mentatlity but both can have the "Same atheletic goals", I'm there for the numbers as well.

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http://www.nunnsontherun.com

Agree fully that everyone is different. If it is your first TRI, by all means bring 2 spares! As for me, I am racing to place, and I do not carry repair items for OLY or less. HIM and IM are different animals and you'd be a fool to not carry repair items.

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Lar Dog

I am gonna get a lot of flak for it (although Monty might back me up) and I am in the mood for it, but I am not trolling and am deadly serious about this:

I think it is "wussification" and the "entitlement" attitude in our society.

Not so long ago, there was no neutral support. Race managment didn't provide you with any opportunity to get back to T2. Heck, they even warned you that there was no race-organized support on the course. Nobody complained....and even back then everybody got to T2, sooner or later. There were maybe 1 or 2 DNFs among 200-300 ppl in short course racing. And those guys either ended up in the ambulance or had a real fatal mechanical.

Sure, all of us amateurs are top of the crop and we are all "professionals" and it is win or die.... and we think we deserve "respect" for our heroic and "manly" attitude. We also payed a lot of money for a race so we are "entitled" to service..... It is there, we "think" we payed for it so we can/will use it.

Same attitude can be found nearly everyday in other aspects of outdoor sports and results in ppl actually counting on being airlifted out of the mountains if they go on a hike/MTB ride totally unprepared....

Problem is: Someone has to pay. And most of the time your money (or registration fee) won't cover the costs. And I am not to happy about paying for those sorry butts (be it with taxes, or hikes in entry fees).

FLAME AWAY!

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adrialin

(BOMK, racing drug and supplement free since 1985)

Very true, but what does that have to do with carrying a spare?

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

yeah..i'm wondering that too.

if i flat in a sprint race, i'm done. the race is an hour long...spending 1/10th of the time of the total race trying to fix a flat and recover from it mentally/physically is a pain in the ass. they are a fun thing to do...go like hell until something bad happens, hoping it doesn't. if it does, race is over. if not...should post a good time.

now...HIM or IM i carry 2 spares...little different scenario

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"Anyone can work hard when they want to; Champions do it when they don't."

its simple buster. some are there to race and a flat takes you right of it. to finish isnt everyones goal

some are there to race and a flat takes you right of it.

Assuming it takes three minutes to fix a flat, that's not true. In some cases, it might, in others, it wouldn't. Again, check out the results of the USAT Nationals across the age groups.

I understand, though don't agree with, Ken's rationale- he's trying to save every little last second, and hoping that nothing breaks. But it isn't true that if something does break in an OD race, you can't win.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."