A wind tunnel is an objective measure. Results from a wind tunnel test are a reasonable means of determining a bike's outside performance. This poster's comment is entirely subjective. Not only are the human senses not actually sharp enough to reliably distinguish the things he says he feels, but also during even a short course triathlon aren't really useful for going fast. How often are you out of the saddle sprinting? Even a top level racer is only riding at 400 watts or so steady state. You don't need a super stiff bike for tri, it doesn't make you faster. All it means is that the designers didn't build the bike with it's purpose in mind.

I found it funny that this happens when very few took ST's own Jordan to task for using a helmet and racewear that "just felt fast". Typical of this fickle audience and sadly the very thing that has caused many with so much to give to bail on us. There are ways to dispute or even debate, yet confrontation seems the favored way here. I enjoy a good fight, but the methods here sometimes go way beyond what is reasonable.

Hopefully the thread will get back to talking about the new bike.......

So being in academia at a small college I am surrounded on a daily basis with people who view the world through scientific minds. Many of these individuals are good friends of mine and I am fortunate enough to be able to have interesting and engaging debates on the merits of objectivity and objective thinking. I agree that there are merits. But this is not the only way to view these issues. Feel may not be objective, but it certainly isn't something we should just dismiss outright as invaluable. As triathletes we do lots of crazy stuff because we think it helps, and the psychology of the power that those positive feelings give can result in speed gains. One example- shaving our arm hair- the positive scientific gains could be seen as quite small, yet many of us believe it helps so we continue to do so. I think dismissing feel as a measure is a mistake. Basing all on feel is also a mistake. There can be a happy medium I think.

---

"There are two ways to slide easily through life- to believe everything and to doubt everything- both ways save us from thinking "- Korzbyski

Road is a noun, so the third word is this handle's existence doesn't make any sense:




Wait, what? Pedals aren't even part of the bike. The crank arm isn't either. And it accelerated up to speed extremely fast? As in, the difference in the bike's ability to accelerate is markedly and perceptibly different from other TT bikes? Doesn't make sense. If you've ridden a bunch of these bikes, you know that doesn't make any sense.





This seems like total nonsense.

Almost nothing this guy said made sense to me. I'd say that to Mark Allen in person or online.

The fact that this poster was called "a shill" -- okay, fine, it's not all that nice, but he certainly came off that way to me. Look at his posts! Man, if Bobby Sweeting had won the Kona Ironman a bunch of times you people would be buying up his wheels and defending his nonsense too.

I'd appreciate an explanation of what exactly this is supposed to mean and how it follows from the previous posts.

What have I posted that leads you to believe I would NOT be a decent person. Be specific please.
Seriously, your approach is that we should be respectful yet you're the one making insinuations and judgements without any basis.

I will be consistent. I will attempt to be fair. I consider those part of "decent" behaviour. You've been neither.

I understand the feeling of fast he's referring to. That's why I like riding my road bike over the tt bike sometimes. However, the bike is heavy and aerodynamically inferior compared to others that also have great ride characteristics, such as the tactical. There is a fun factor that comes with riding certain bikes for sure. However, shaving your arm hair will make you faster in a tri than this perceived 'speed' will, unless you're sprinting at high power regularly.

Well this thread has derailed. I was just excited about a new bike.

---

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

😀😁😋

I am the first to point out Jordan's nonsense when it surfaces and for the same reason I promote calling out bullshit when it's spewed. Yeah, it's a shame that a bunch of dicks chased Chris Boardman off the forum, but confrontation is in general where we have the best and most entertaining dialogue.

There are a lot of ways of litigating this stuff, but in general the positive trend is towards democratization of ideas, which works when the discussion is fundamentally intellectual. The funny thing about the "rando" comment (or whatever Grill was called above) is that based on what "Grill" has written on these forums and based on what I know about Mark Allen/what the MarkAllenCoach handle has written on this thread so far, there is (in my mind) no doubt that Grill is the better authority on aero / modern day performance bike assessment.

Anyways, I know something about the "new Ventum" because we were told about it almost a year ago and BryanD was there so I'm not sure why he's playing dumb. The gist of it is that Jimmy and Diaa have put a lot of development effort into some proprietary braking system that provides for all the braking performance advantages of disc brakes with all the aero advantages of rim brakes. I think the rotor is somehow internal, affixed to the hub maybe...something along those lines. They were taking it through the UCI approval process last March. If there's a new product from Ventum my guess is that it will be or at least involve that braking system.

I blame Mark 😉

A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps or gives credibility to a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization.


Probably should have gone with plant to avoid such a negative connotation. That's my bad.


To your earlier points, I am far from anonymous and I had no idea who he was and made that clear (although I would still scream 'plant' from the rooftops if I had known who he was).

Nope, not that. Are you sure they're cool with you posting that? Anyway, they posted the bike a few days ago on Instagram, but no one here noticed.

---

Jim Manton / ERO Sports

I posted the link to it.

Actually....I just now see what you mean. I missed the 3T stem in the pic. I'll update the main page with the pic but it hasn't made it to the Ventum website yet.

---

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

My apologies, Ai_1. I meant it as a sarcastic comment, and if in doing so I called your integrity out, I admit I shouldn't have, and I admit it makes me a hypocrite.

---

"There are two ways to slide easily through life- to believe everything and to doubt everything- both ways save us from thinking "- Korzbyski

https://www.instagram.com/p/BetiBQdBXaO/

So it's just a cheaper version of the bike? Am I missing something?

Cheaper version of the Ventum Z. Notice the 3T stem in the picture.

---

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Interesting comment. As the person who designed the test and helped run it, and considering we had smaller error bars than many manufactures when they test, what flaws did you see?

No one other than ventum had any concerns about any of the data. I'd be interested in hearing what you thought was wrong.

Out of all the Ventum data, we produced the best rider off & rider on data that's ever been produced on a Ventum.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

---

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

It must take a special person to ride such a beautiful looking and amazingly fast bike!!!

LOL...

Much appreciated

I was never told otherwise, and honestly it's just not that interesting and, at least conceptually, is not anything that other, larger, better positioned companies aren't or haven't been in balls deep. Unless the Ventum guys have managed to galvanize support across the industry -- which I find exceptionally unlikely -- I think any proprietary braking system (especially one that involves wheels) with has any chance to garner meaningful adoption needs to come from a company called SRAM or Shimano. Are there better systems and will this Ventum system be better? Sure, maybe. Just like Rotor UNO may be a better shifting system, but that product is pretty much dead on arrival.


Wow, yeah. I guess that speaks to how unexciting it is.

The fork + TriRig Omega X are something.

Not sure there is a huge win there vs. just slapping on a Cervelo P5-6 or P2/3 fork.

At some point I'll build one of these with that setup, probably Magura brakes, a Profile Aeria Ultimate stem/bottle, and an integrated snax cabin between the bottle and the stem. Cleaning up that interface is worth some grams of drag.

If I can't get my grubby ass hands on a Reap this year, my summer build will definitely be a Ventum, simply because I have a pretty good estimate of the drag improvements to be made on that front end, and it ain't small.

“far from anonymous” seems like a stretch, but that’s okay. I regretted my “rando” comment after seeing how many posts you’ve made on the forum. I feel like I have a decent sense of who’s who among the regulars, and your handle didn’t register at all. Obviously I was mistaken - looks like you’re into the bike tech aspect, which I don’t read as often, so maybe that’s the reason for the disconnect.

Not sure how you could post over 1600 times on a triathlon forum and not learn about Mark Allen, but I believe you.

I just don’t understand leaping to the shill/ plant conclusion. Why is it not possible that Mark rode the bike and truly thought it “felt fast”? Why go straight to attacking his integrity? There is a degree of intentional obfuscation that goes with shill or plant, and that seems like a big leap.

---

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

Well my name is actually Grill... And like I said, I'm not a triathlete so don't pay attention to the history.
As has been pointed out many times, 'feeling fast' doesn't mean a thing, regardless of who says it, and when it comes with an attack on the validity of properly gathered data, it becomes more than just adding his $.02. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe he has no skin in the game (if it really is him), but what am I supposed to think when he implies his butt dyno is better than an A2 tunnel?

Ah - touche! My apologies Mr. Grill.

Some people are big on feel. Knowing what I know of Mark Allen, it makes perfect sense. You should read up on him and how he embraced Shamanism before going on his winning tear at Kona.

We all know about how powerful "feel" can be - placebo effect, etc. Some put more trust in it than others. Sometimes it can be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Like Stallone flipping his hat around in Over The Top.

---

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

I feel like this thread is over.

---

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/