Apple Watch and Garmin, I am not sure if they will want to move to other brands.
Suffice to say, as I mentioned before, the feature set was enough for me to buy an Apple Watch after refusing to buy once since their original launch product! (my wife just thinks I need zero excuses to buy any more tech stuff).

Ah I see, you perhaps do have a need for such a watch. I prob should not have even commented since I've never swum in an EP. I've swum 1000s of hours in around 100 diff pools, but they were all just "regular pools". Thanks for the explain. :)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Tried it for a couple of 2500m swims- using an apple watch

The stroke feedback is pretty cool

The stroke type detection and accuracy of lap counting is not as good as the other app I regularly use, and there is no way to edit the swim (that i could find) afterwards.

The watch does not auto-detect kick or drill sets and can't add them in later

The concept is cool but I don't think it would replace the app I regularly use.

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Nice to hear you gave it a try.
I have found lap counting to be on par with my Garmin 935 and Fenix 6....the wearables rely on a sudden change in direction to detect a new lap...
Can other devices auto detect kick and drill sets?

Not auto detect but can manually specify a kick or drill set during the swim.

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I will ask. I presume you can change it all in TP after.
I never bother with the garmin to manually specify it, if it reads wrong I correct it later. Mainly as don't have enough time between sets to select it.

So what puzzles me is if the accelerometers are accurate enough to produce those heat maps of the hand entry point - essentially 1-2cm variability, how is it that it can't detect when you turn?

Those heat maps must have two elements in them. 1) the variability of the persons stroke. 2) the variability of the accuracy of the sensor. Now the garmin (not yet availalbe on swim smooth) sensors are in there to allow the detection of running cadence, footsteps for daily tracker, swim stroke identification, cadence and length detection. That's what it/they were designed to achieve by Garmin. So to be able to pick up detail needed here - that's a big step up. So perhaps they over speced the sensors and this software is tapping into that additional data garmin ignored.

For the Apple watch, I don't know - are there other apps, native or aftermarket that use the accelerometers for high precision stuff?

But, in fairness then I'm also thinking the other way. The garmin (and every other) footpod is able to work out very accurately the stride distance (to the CM) which is kinda akin to the recovery arm distance. So that's plausible for the swimsmooth app. But I'd have thought I'd have seen some running app that leveraged the footpod data to show if I was bringing my foot too high/not high enough, the arc of the stride, where the acceleration was (up or forward). As running dynamics is a way bigger market than swimming dynamics (random totally un-evidenced statement, but I'd guess so given the previous chatter about it).

I'd be keen to try the app, and I'd be certainly looking to deliberately do some odd things with my stroke (noting that this isn't fully optional), such as deliberately wide for 10 lengths, then deliberately narrow for 10 lengths, and then narrow/wide alternating to see how well the watch picks those up.

I tried it on the apple watch today. Counting was iffy at best. Off by 150m in at 2500m swim. I don't think I have been off by six lengths on my Garmin in total in the last 3 years. No pace info or rest timer.

I guess I have been heavily spoiled using a Garmin all this time. I did get a 5.0/5 on stroke timing, so that is good, but an arm recovery score of 0.1/5 makes me think that the ortho suggestion that the fix for my sore shoulder might not be inaccurate.

I could really see benefit of the stroke analysis if I can make meaningful change it can detect.

Only a brief reply to the comment re doing odd things...the app will average out your stroke from over the session, so you would need to do each deliberate thing in a single session, then next session do the next thing. In terms of how I have "tested" it, basically I have done a few detailed video sessions where we have done the analysis, then looked at what the app said I was doing, as much as I thought my hand pull through for instance was how it should be, the video analysis and app showed how I was pulling through with a lot straighter arm than I thought.

One thought/comment: I basically never have a problem with laps being out except when doing drills/kick work. But, I open turn and don't flip turn so am always giving the arm with my watch on it a solid hit on the wall, it would be interesting to know if there are more issues with lap counting with flip turns versus open turns??!!

But the website shows heatmaps for every stroke. So either the website isn't reflecting what you've had/used, or your comment on the averaging isn't right. I get the feedback score is average over session, but I'm talking about seeing the heatmap position which should show two clusters for the session doing different things.

I get you, yes, you would expect that if you did two entirely different things each session, like thumb first hand entry versus pinky first, it would show up as two different hot areas in the heat map. I might try it next time for fun and see what happens!

Thanks. I know I'm being a bit negative here, so genuinely would appreciate seeing the shots of those heatmaps versus your normal mapping. Obviously so long as it doesn't injure you, or blow your technique out.

I received a marketing email today from SwimSmooth re: this app being available. I realize the stroke analysis functionality is currently only available for Apple Watch. Does anyone have insight as to when that functionality will be available for Garmin users? If not, I’ll reach out to the company and ask..

this seems quite important to me. while i'm sure there are many things that i do wrong consistently, there are also many things that i get right sometimes but not consistently. averaging this out will miss those. the big value in an always on "coach" like this is the ability to pick those things up vs a real life coach who can't always be there or see everything all at once.

Please let us know, I'm also very interested!
thnx

I reached out to SwimSmooth yesterday. They said they’re working with Garmin to get proper access to the data required for stroke analysis but don’t have a timeline as they’re at the will of Garmin to grant access to that specific data. Hopefully soon but unfortunately no specific ETA at this point. I’m glad to know it’s in the works at least.

So with my cynic hat firmly on, then they have asked to get access to the source they need, so have never had access to that data to see if it actually gives them the resolution they need, or even if it is possible for the garmin architecture to send that 'raw' stream to a applet? Right....

Also still waiting to see someone successfully do the test outlined above to remove my fear that this is a great theory / proposal, but in reality is still near vaporware.

Stroke analysis for each of the 4 competitive strokes, or is this just for freestyle?

Hey there!

I gave this new app and go, and I was pretty impressed. I am no swimmer, thus what I think I'm doing in the pool versus what I am doing is clearly very different! And I think the app is pretty good with nailing the issues and consequences of those issues. One screen asked "Veer right when in open water?" and I took a screenshot of it and sent it to my friends who got a very big laugh out of it. . .they will only swim on my left for this exact reason. Fixing these problems, however, well. . .I'm not sure any app will be able to do that. Wish me luck!

xo
Meg

So is that with an apple watch or garmin? Thanks.

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I believe my local reality has been violated.
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Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2

Apple watch!
I had been pretty afraid to swim with it, but this app may offer me a reason to use it. My Garmin watch is a 920 XT, and since it still works, I'm not planning on replacing it.

I suspect the first use of "flash" here by the OP is in the sense of UK English. A USAian would probably say "flashy" instead. Their website doesn't use Adobe Flash, so all the website designers and security experts here can stand down.

Just following up to see if anyone has been using the app. Apple Watch users—have you found a lot of benefit from the stroke analysis feature? I was holding out for that functionality to come to Garmin, but as there’s no ETA on it, I’m debating just picking up a used Apple Watch and trying the app out.

I bought an apple watch 3 (new) for $120ish to try out SwimSmooth. I still wear my fenix 6 and place the apple watch on the opposite wrist. My thought is that this is similar in price to a hr strap.

It confirms that my form is terrible and lopsided. Super useful as it gives me specifics to work on each session. I am improving in form and in my pacing.

My fenix 6 is slightly better at counting laps but the applewatch does a better job on gps counted open water swim tracking.

Finally, the app synch function to my iPhone is a little wonky ...beta product.

Would buy again

Thanks so much for the feedback—super helpful! I’ll likely do the same thing based on your experience