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New Silca NSF Lube
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Couple of questions for Josh on the new chain lube.

"Handmade/Artisan Chainlube: Now Available"

1) Is it also organic and gluten free?


"none can match the longevity, durability, and efficiency..."

2) Since this is ST, can you share the metrics you use to measure those three? What is the difference between longevity and durability? Efficient as paraffin?
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Re: New Silca NSF Lube [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Is it $450?

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: New Silca NSF Lube [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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are you sure that should be in pink?
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Re: New Silca NSF Lube [trail] [ In reply to ]
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When it comes to things like chemical lubricants; I really prefer if it's made by a large company with lots of ChemE's and MatSci engineers.

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
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Re: New Silca NSF Lube [trail] [ In reply to ]
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I don't have a dog in the fight, and I've never met the man (Josh), but I have met his wife...

Anyway, NFS is the real deal. Use it like the label says: SPARINGLY. 10 drops does it. Wipe down after riding (though I rarely do this). Quiet and smooth for WAY longer than most any other chain lube I've used.

And it makes a great cutting oil for crown races, head tubes, and bottom brackets. Though I know none of you give a rat's hairy tookus about that.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/
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Re: New Silca NSF Lube [brider] [ In reply to ]
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>I don't have a dog in the fight, and I've never met the man (Josh), but I have met his wife...

Oh, I'm not in a fight. I have every new Silca product except the pump, and they're all fantastic. Just giving him a little crap for the over-the-top marketing language and I also have a genuine desire to know how the efficiency of the lube compares to other products. I assume that Josh has tested the friction numbers being a data-driven kind of guy.
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Re: New Silca NSF Lube [brider] [ In reply to ]
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I'm no lube or materials engineer, but I always thought the idea of a chain lube was to get a drop on every single roller...

I'm having a hard time seeing how a lube can be effective if you just use 10 drops on a rag & spread it over the surface of the chain.
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Re: New Silca NSF Lube [brider] [ In reply to ]
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brider wrote:
I don't have a dog in the fight, and I've never met the man (Josh), but I have met his wife...

Anyway, NFS is the real deal. Use it like the label says: SPARINGLY. 10 drops does it. Wipe down after riding (though I rarely do this). Quiet and smooth for WAY longer than most any other chain lube I've used.

And it makes a great cutting oil for crown races, head tubes, and bottom brackets. Though I know none of you give a rat's hairy tookus about that.

So, given a chain with ~108 links, 12 drops randomly applied somehow delivers 1/9 of whatever portion of a drop (that doesn't land on the side plates and the rollers themselves) to each and every roller, which then finds its way inside the roller? I'm surprised they don't charge $100 for this magic stuff.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: New Silca NSF Lube [grosso27] [ In reply to ]
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I'll have to check the instructions again, but if I'm remembering right, you don't put the lube on a rag and wipe the chain down with it. You apply the lube directly to the chain. 'Rings, cogs and pulleys distribute it on all the links. Give it a little time to penetrate, and ride in the crappiest conditions you can find. The wipe down is after riding to knock the sludge off the side plates so it looks clean (as I said before, I seldom do this, and it still lasts a comparative forever), and you just use a dry rag.

So a funny little anecdote: Last spring I was at a LBS that was giving a maintenance clinic to the kids tri team I help coach. They made a reference to re-lubing the chain every 200 miles, or after EVERY wet ride (don't remember what they were holding up as the example, but it was a standard well-known company). I had to beg to differ, and told them that if they have to re-apply that often, they're using shyte lube (okay, I didn't say it in so many words), and that 400 is easily attained with the right stuff (and seriously, I've gotten that kind of mileage on NFS). I hate to call out shop owners, but when they are talking out of their asses (like when they spew off all the urban myths about 650c wheels), I can't hold back.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/
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Re: New Silca NSF Lube [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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klehner wrote:
brider wrote:
I don't have a dog in the fight, and I've never met the man (Josh), but I have met his wife...

Anyway, NFS is the real deal. Use it like the label says: SPARINGLY. 10 drops does it. Wipe down after riding (though I rarely do this). Quiet and smooth for WAY longer than most any other chain lube I've used.

And it makes a great cutting oil for crown races, head tubes, and bottom brackets. Though I know none of you give a rat's hairy tookus about that.


So, given a chain with ~108 links, 12 drops randomly applied somehow delivers 1/9 of whatever portion of a drop (that doesn't land on the side plates and the rollers themselves) to each and every roller, which then finds its way inside the roller? I'm surprised they don't charge $100 for this magic stuff.

Then buy some at only $15 and try it out for yourself. Or you can believe the recent (maybe a couple months back) spot in Bicycling where the editor (and I wish I could remember which one) didn't believe it either, until he tried it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/
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Re: New Silca NSF Lube [brider] [ In reply to ]
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brider wrote:
klehner wrote:
brider wrote:
I don't have a dog in the fight, and I've never met the man (Josh), but I have met his wife...

Anyway, NFS is the real deal. Use it like the label says: SPARINGLY. 10 drops does it. Wipe down after riding (though I rarely do this). Quiet and smooth for WAY longer than most any other chain lube I've used.

And it makes a great cutting oil for crown races, head tubes, and bottom brackets. Though I know none of you give a rat's hairy tookus about that.


So, given a chain with ~108 links, 12 drops randomly applied somehow delivers 1/9 of whatever portion of a drop (that doesn't land on the side plates and the rollers themselves) to each and every roller, which then finds its way inside the roller? I'm surprised they don't charge $100 for this magic stuff.


Then buy some at only $15 and try it out for yourself. Or you can believe the recent (maybe a couple months back) spot in Bicycling where the editor (and I wish I could remember which one) didn't believe it either, until he tried it.

I'd rather have someone explain how this can possibly work. I'm not going to try homeopathic compounds until someone explains how they can possibly work, either.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: New Silca NSF Lube [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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klehner wrote:
I'd rather have someone explain how this can possibly work. I'm not going to try homeopathic compounds until someone explains how they can possibly work, either.

This makes me laugh. It's like if I can't explain gravity, then it can't possibly work...

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/
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Re: New Silca NSF Lube [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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The stuff works, here is a picture of my chain after riding a non-stop 335 mile gravel grinder from Pittsburgh to Washington DC. As people say, a picture is worth a thousand words.


Last edited by: znfdl: Nov 21, 14 10:10
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Re: New Silca NSF Lube [brider] [ In reply to ]
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brider wrote:
klehner wrote:
I'd rather have someone explain how this can possibly work. I'm not going to try homeopathic compounds until someone explains how they can possibly work, either.


This makes me laugh. It's like if I can't explain gravity, then it can't possibly work...

Yeah, it's just like that. When asked how gravity works, the best that physicists can do is shrug their shoulders and say "I have no idea, but I know it exists."

So tell me how you think NFS works.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: New Silca NSF Lube [brider] [ In reply to ]
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brider wrote:
I don't have a dog in the fight, and I've never met the man (Josh), but I have met his wife...

Anyway, NFS is the real deal. Use it like the label says: SPARINGLY. 10 drops does it. Wipe down after riding (though I rarely do this). Quiet and smooth for WAY longer than most any other chain lube I've used.

And it makes a great cutting oil for crown races, head tubes, and bottom brackets. Though I know none of you give a rat's hairy tookus about that.

I think this says a lot...
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Re: New Silca NSF Lube [over9000!] [ In reply to ]
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over9000! wrote:
brider wrote:
I don't have a dog in the fight, and I've never met the man (Josh), but I have met his wife...

Anyway, NFS is the real deal. Use it like the label says: SPARINGLY. 10 drops does it. Wipe down after riding (though I rarely do this). Quiet and smooth for WAY longer than most any other chain lube I've used.

And it makes a great cutting oil for crown races, head tubes, and bottom brackets. Though I know none of you give a rat's hairy tookus about that.


I think this says a lot...

Here's the story: His wife got selected in the lottery to do RAMROD (Ride Around Mt Rainier in One Day) this year. Josh wanted some one he felt he could trust to receive his wife's bike and put it together on this end (they're on the east coast), and then break it down and ship it back after the ride. I volunteered. They're good people, as far as I can tell. We (my wife, daughter and I) met her for dinner a couple days before the ride.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/
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Re: New Silca NSF Lube [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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It is actually pretty simple. Although a good lube that does not dry out may eventually spread along a chain from where it was originally dropped, that is a very inefficient (and slow) way of getting your lube where it needs to go. The trick is really quite simple. Those nine or ten drops will very quickly begin to get onto the rear cog and chainring that you have your chain on when you are applying the lube. As you continue to crank those cranks, the small amounts that get deposited on the cog and ring will then be redeposited on the chain in different places. As it turns out, the derailleur's jockey wheels actually do a much better job of distributing the lube anyway since they are so much smaller and therefore redeposit the lube that gets on them very quickly. When you first use NFS on a clean dry chain, you will see that the jockey wheels, cog and ring get that shiny look very quickly ... and that is what moves the stuff around. How does it get inside when there is so little of it? I'm not a petrochemical chemist. so all I can say is that it clearly does. There must be some stuff in it that helps it migrate. That's all I've got. I've been on it for a few years now. It just works. Just use the stuff and stop counting angels on the heads of pins.

Tom Kellogg
http://WWW.SPECTRUM-CYCLES.COM
Old guy who still rides bikes
The Framebuilders Collective
Last edited by: TomKellogg: Nov 21, 14 10:36
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Re: New Silca NSF Lube [trail] [ In reply to ]
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I hope that Friction Facts tests the stuff out and updates their chain lube report to include it.
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Re: New Silca NSF Lube [TomKellogg] [ In reply to ]
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Is the Silca NSF Lube the same stuff you mention on your website? Nix Frix Shun? Glad to see a premier builder weighing in on the discussion.
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Re: New Silca NSF Lube [mcycle] [ In reply to ]
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Excellent question ... that I don't have the answer to. I've been using NFS for a few years now, maybe 15k miles or so on the road and about a season's worth of cross. I finally finished my first bottle up this August. Damn, that works out to only about a thousand miles per dollar of lube. What a rip! Anyway, Josh will need to chime in here about whether there are any practical differences between the tried and true "old" NFS and the Silca version. Nice looking bottles though.

Tom Kellogg
http://WWW.SPECTRUM-CYCLES.COM
Old guy who still rides bikes
The Framebuilders Collective
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Re: New Silca NSF Lube [pritchet74] [ In reply to ]
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If you look at the Velo chain test (done with Friction Facts) you see that NFS finished 11th overall for friction with 3 of the top ten being hot melt paraffin waxes and 1 being olive oil, with the other drip lubes all having low to very low life expectancies. So the real story comes in the durability department, where the NFS formulation proves to be considerably more durable that most anything else..if you look at the Friction facts data for friction and then for durability you see that there is really no overlap between the best in each category, you either get low friction (typically very low viscosity), OR you get good durability (typically high viscosity)... With the NFS formulation you get a product that is in the top 10 on both charts.

Now, for SILCA, we are using a custom formulation, so I'd recommend you try both and see what you think, or selectively use both depending on application, we've chosen to emphasize drivetrain efficiency a bit more which means slightly less durability..though still nearly best in class. Overall, I am thrilled to say that we have a product that lasts longer than AND has less friction than ANY of the major lube brands you can name off the top of your head.

Lastly, partnering with NFS really brings the best of both worlds in terms of our business values and ideals. Josh at NFS has experience and contacts within the major high-end lubricant manufacturers so there is access to research, data and real technology, yet NFS is a small scale formulator which can focus on precision, quality, customization, and ingredient selection in ways that no large manufacturer is willing to do. I liken it to a craft brewery...anybody can buy grain, hops and yeast from the same major suppliers (of which there are very few) but the key is really in what you do with it after that as all of the components have to come together in the right way and in the right proportions at the right time to maximize results.

Lastly, as a close analogy to this chainlube (and a blatant plug..) we also launched a coffee which is. Very similar to our working with NFS, we worked with a local roaster where we selected beans all the way back to the farm co-op in Ethiopia, chose the way the beans were processed (naturally fermented in the sun..no chemicals, no machines) and then dialed in the hand roasting, which is done weekly so the beans will be only a few days roasted when you get them. The result is something otherworldly if you are a fan of fine coffee.
Enjoy
Josh

http://www.SILCA.cc
Check out my podcast, inside stories from more than 20 years of product and tech innovation from inside the Pro Peloton and Pro Triathlon worlds!
http://www.marginalgainspodcast.cc
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Re: New Silca NSF Lube [brider] [ In reply to ]
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brider wrote:
So a funny little anecdote: Last spring I was at a LBS that was giving a maintenance clinic to the kids tri team I help coach. They made a reference to re-lubing the chain every 200 miles, or after EVERY wet ride (don't remember what they were holding up as the example, but it was a standard well-known company). I had to beg to differ, and told them that if they have to re-apply that often, they're using shyte lube (okay, I didn't say it in so many words), and that 400 is easily attained with the right stuff (and seriously, I've gotten that kind of mileage on NFS). I hate to call out shop owners, but when they are talking out of their asses (like when they spew off all the urban myths about 650c wheels), I can't hold back.

Is their suggestion of over-lubing not ultimately more beneficial than potentially under-lubing though? Is it necessary? Probably not, but certainly better than the alternative, and who knows, may save more money in the long run rather than trying to squeeze every last mile out of each lube application. Prior to motorcycle chains adding O-rings, weren't they run fully enclosed in oil baths to extend the life/performance of the chain?

I'd err on the side of over-lubing to increase performance and component life, and only recommend lower frequency if you know the particulars about the lube they're using because this NSF stuff seems to be the exception, not the norm.
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Re: New Silca NSF Lube [BeeSeeBee] [ In reply to ]
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BeeSeeBee wrote:
brider wrote:

So a funny little anecdote: Last spring I was at a LBS that was giving a maintenance clinic to the kids tri team I help coach. They made a reference to re-lubing the chain every 200 miles, or after EVERY wet ride (don't remember what they were holding up as the example, but it was a standard well-known company). I had to beg to differ, and told them that if they have to re-apply that often, they're using shyte lube (okay, I didn't say it in so many words), and that 400 is easily attained with the right stuff (and seriously, I've gotten that kind of mileage on NFS). I hate to call out shop owners, but when they are talking out of their asses (like when they spew off all the urban myths about 650c wheels), I can't hold back.


Is their suggestion of over-lubing not ultimately more beneficial than potentially under-lubing though? Is it necessary? Probably not, but certainly better than the alternative, and who knows, may save more money in the long run rather than trying to squeeze every last mile out of each lube application. Prior to motorcycle chains adding O-rings, weren't they run fully enclosed in oil baths to extend the life/performance of the chain?

I'd err on the side of over-lubing to increase performance and component life, and only recommend lower frequency if you know the particulars about the lube they're using because this NSF stuff seems to be the exception, not the norm.

Over-lubing leads to faster drivetrain wear, unless you're completely cleaning it each time. What do you get when you add lube to dirt? Grinding compound.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/
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Re: New Silca NSF Lube [brider] [ In reply to ]
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brider wrote:

Over-lubing leads to faster drivetrain wear, unless you're completely cleaning it each time. What do you get when you add lube to dirt? Grinding compound.


Is there evidence of this (the adding more lube but not completely cleaning reducing chain life)? The friction facts test show a decrease in performance pre/post cyclocross race (they then did a complete cleaning), so I don't imagine just continuing to ride on that (well not that level of grit, but a slow gradual build up of junk) would be better than throwing more lube and removing some gunk.

I just don't follow the logic, adding lube seems like it's going to flush some dirt/grit out if you do a quick wipe down with a rag, you're not really adding any more dirt, removing at least some, so I don't get where the added wear is going to come from.

I'm genuinely curious because I re-lube once a week (~200-300 miles) and don't think I've ever done anything other than apply more lube and wipe it down. Chain life seems to be good too, normally north of 5000 miles.
Last edited by: BeeSeeBee: Nov 21, 14 12:23
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Re: New Silca NSF Lube [TomKellogg] [ In reply to ]
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TomKellogg wrote:
It is actually pretty simple. Although a good lube that does not dry out may eventually spread along a chain from where it was originally dropped, that is a very inefficient (and slow) way of getting your lube where it needs to go. The trick is really quite simple. Those nine or ten drops will very quickly begin to get onto the rear cog and chainring that you have your chain on when you are applying the lube. As you continue to crank those cranks, the small amounts that get deposited on the cog and ring will then be redeposited on the chain in different places. As it turns out, the derailleur's jockey wheels actually do a much better job of distributing the lube anyway since they are so much smaller and therefore redeposit the lube that gets on them very quickly. When you first use NFS on a clean dry chain, you will see that the jockey wheels, cog and ring get that shiny look very quickly ... and that is what moves the stuff around. How does it get inside when there is so little of it? I'm not a petrochemical chemist. so all I can say is that it clearly does. There must be some stuff in it that helps it migrate. That's all I've got. I've been on it for a few years now. It just works. Just use the stuff and stop counting angels on the heads of pins.

I've always been skeptical that applying lube onto outside of the chain can work its way down into the pin and bushings where the lube can actually reduce friction and chain wear. I just don't see how 12 drops, after it gets spread around the chain/chainrings/pulleys can work into 104 pin-bushing interfaces.
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