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Mental Toughness
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Searched the forum and nothing good came up.

Say I'm running a 5k. First mile is fine, second mile I try to keep pace so I step up the effort, but probably slow down by about 5-10 seconds. The final mile if I want to keep the same pace I have to really hurt myself, and I just can't do it. I have a "pain barrier" that I can't seem to break. I'll get to the top of my pain threshold and just go into cruise control. I scold myself after every race but i just don't know what to do. It's worse if someone passes me. I'll just let him go, which makes me slow down even more so I won't be 'too close' to him or leave the possibilty of kicking him down at the finish (more pain I guess).

Anyone might have any suggestions?
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Re: Mental Toughness [Snapple] [ In reply to ]
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Sometimes the shorter races are the toughest because the pain level can be higher and you have the expectation that it's a short race and therefore want it to be over soon.

The only thing I can recommend is that in your training you try to break through this pain threshold as often as you can with fartleks, tempo runs, sprints, etc. Get your body used to the discomfort in manageable chunks(make sure that you maintain form through the pain). Don't save all the pain for race day. It's harder to handle that way.

Train hard so that racing seems easy.
Last edited by: subminuteman: Mar 29, 06 13:13
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Re: Mental Toughness [Snapple] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Searched the forum and nothing good came up.

Say I'm running a 5k. First mile is fine, second mile I try to keep pace so I step up the effort, but probably slow down by about 5-10 seconds. The final mile if I want to keep the same pace I have to really hurt myself, and I just can't do it. I have a "pain barrier" that I can't seem to break. I'll get to the top of my pain threshold and just go into cruise control. I scold myself after every race but i just don't know what to do. It's worse if someone passes me. I'll just let him go, which makes me slow down even more so I won't be 'too close' to him or leave the possibilty of kicking him down at the finish (more pain I guess).

Anyone might have any suggestions?


I've been in a couple of situations exactly like this at the end of a duathlon or triathlon. It all comes down to how much you want it. Seriously. There've been times I wanted to die, but I wanted to catch/beat someone badly enough that I did what had to be done. There was a race last year where someone passed me in the last 500-600yds of the run: I just didn't want it badly enough to keep up with him, and he ended up putting me into 2nd in my AG.

Perhaps your "pain barrier" is actually your fitness limit. How do you know you could have run faster?

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"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Mental Toughness [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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I know because I raced against a couple of teammates of mine. In practice I'm always mixing it up with them (2 of them I'll usually beat, the other one is a bit faster). They ended up running 16:50, 17:08 and 17:15, and I was back in 17:35. When the 17:15 guy went by me I just let him go without even trying to stick with him, even though I beat him in every 900m repeat we ran on monday (we have a 300m track).

I've only had the 'I want to die but I keep going strong' feeling a few times in my life, all of them ended up as new PRs, and the catch - on all of them I running alone.

This is so frustrating.
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Re: Mental Toughness [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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You just asked a fantastic question. If you didn't step it up how do you know whether it was physical or mental? My training partner (no really. it is my training partner) is always beating himself up for not being mentally tough enough. Some of that may be true, but I think a lot of it is just physical.

Significantly undertrained since 1999
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Re: Mental Toughness [Snapple] [ In reply to ]
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Are you running their race, or are you running your race?
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Re: Mental Toughness [Snapple] [ In reply to ]
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maybe you should start out a little easier so you can keep the same pace. your first mile might be slower but your overall will likely be faster. start at the same pace as these guys that pass you but stay behind them and use them for pacing. do some runs where you run tempo pace for a while then drop down 30sec/mile faster for the last couple of miles. these teach you a lot about pacing.
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Re: Mental Toughness [Snapple] [ In reply to ]
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I am usually in contention for an age group award so that's enough for me to give it my all (which really does hurt). I also tell myself two things during the "shit it hurts" part of the race, namely (i) the pain will rapidly subside within a minute after I finish and (ii) when my head hits the pillow that night I'm going to feel bad if I didn't give it my best.

I lost an important race for me 2 years ago by three feet but I didn't feel that bad about it because I knew that I gave it everything I had (my legs buckled from the effort with 5 yards to go).

If I wasn't going for an award, I would not push myself so hard (and would probably be golfing rather than racing anyhow). But that's just me.

So, bottom line, I think your race tolerance for pain is very dependent on how much where you finish in the race means to you.
Last edited by: MPB1950: Mar 29, 06 14:50
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Re: Mental Toughness [Snapple] [ In reply to ]
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"It's worse if someone passes me. I'll just let him go..."

Sorry. I cannot relate to that concept. If you were prey...you'd be eaten.
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Re: Mental Toughness [Snapple] [ In reply to ]
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For short course fo me its pretty simple:

No matter how I place or time, I don't want to have any regrets at all after the race. The relatively short amount of time on the course vs. the long lasting memories created.

Also, another corny phrase that goes through my head: "Pain is temporary, memories are forever". I seem to draw on that when it feels like my heart is going to explode during a race.
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Re: Mental Toughness [subminuteman] [ In reply to ]
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I really liked what sub had to say. My coach has really been pushing me on this one-getting stronger through out the run, not slowing down through out. I work on that nearly all run workouts. I just set my triathlon run PR this past weekend by 20 sec per mile and it was 3.5 miles. The last 1000 meters I was actually surging and probally would have gone even faster if I wouldn't have pulled the rookie move of having my shoelace come undone in the last 500 meters. So for me it was all about the workouts. Goodluck.



Aloha,

Matt
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Re: Mental Toughness [Snapple] [ In reply to ]
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Well first most world records are set following the 51% 49% rule. That is the first 1/2 of the race takes 51% of your total race time, and therefore the second 1/2 is fastest.

If you are slowing down in the second 1/2 of the race, you have gone to hard in the first 1/2. What you need to do is pace it so mental toughness taken into account you can maintain a faster pace in the second 1/2.

The best workouts for both building pacing skills and boosting mental toughness is track work. Do 3-5 mile of track repeats with a group of fast runners and you will learn a lot and get faster in many ways.

One trick I use when really pushing it towards the end of a race is I keep on telling myself that the pain is just tempory and its my body trying to trick me into slowing down. When you’re able to red line to the point of throwing up in a short race you have found your bodies limit, use track workouts to learn how close you can come to this limit.

Also if you know your AT level and have a heart rate monitor doing fast runs and spin workouts that enter zone 4 and 5 a few times in a hour will help build a higher pain threshold.

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http://www.nunnsontherun.com
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Re: Mental Toughness [Snapple] [ In reply to ]
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Instead of focusing on the results of your race, or how much it hurts, or how your friends are doing, you should focus on the task at hand, ie maintaining a fluid stride and pushing powerfully off of the ground. All of the other things are just distractions that will take away from the energy you actually devote to running the race.

You can practice these things by doing some mental relaxation or imagery exercises. It only takes a few minutes a day, also, books like "in pursuit of excellence" detail more of this stuff if you are interested


sback
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Re: Mental Toughness [sback] [ In reply to ]
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'"Pain is only temporary, failure lasts forever"' Lance Armstrong



Now if only I could litsen to that, as I have had the same problem at quite a few of my 5k runs.


http://www.rollingthundercananda.com

There are those who try, and those who du, there is no tri, only du


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Re: Mental Toughness [Snapple] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with the others regarding pacing. If you are slowing down 5-10 seconds in the second mile, your pacing is off. Your second mile should be as fast or faster than the first. After all, the first was from a standing start. You shouldn't feel happy at the end of the second, but you should feel like your able to hold the pace. I usually try to start surging at that point, because the last half mile is going to be really hard. Or maybe the last half mile is really hard because I do start surging at that point.


Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (James Bryant Conant)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (Doug Stern)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (William Shakespeare)
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Re: Mental Toughness [Snapple] [ In reply to ]
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Pain is a realtive thing. I recall some of my best running races when I was running seriously, as being pain free. You are in the zone and you are just flowing along. If you need to speed up you can. If you need to dig in on a hill you can. If you need to accelerate to cover someone else move or, surge you can. The finishline comes up, you raise the pace and the competition fades away!

Other races can be a real painful grind.

Fleck


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Mental Toughness [Snapple] [ In reply to ]
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Read the posts to the last thread you started about this topic :)
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Re: Mental Toughness [Snapple] [ In reply to ]
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Swim longer. Try to swim as long as it takes you to run 5k, if its 20 minutes, then swim for 20 minutes, 25, then swim for 25 minutes straight. When you can swim that long, then everything else is easy. Swimming you see the same thing over and over and over again, and can't talk. A long run will seem like a cake walk after that mental toughness!!!

-bcreager
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Re: Mental Toughness [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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Perhaps your "pain barrier" is actually your fitness limit. How do you know you could have run faster? When the 17:15 guy went by me I just let him go without even trying to stick with him, even though I beat him in every 900m repeat we ran on monday (we have a 300m track).


It would be instructive to consider long term training history. We would all like the comfort of being able to accurately predict race results from workout times (and places) but one workout in isolation will omit much of the story. There has to be some reason why you can outperform the teammates in the intervals but get dropped in races. Possibilities:

a. You're the team "workout king" who treats every repeat like a mini-race and therefore sets unrealistic expectations of what pace you can maintain when the rest periods get removed. If you are running the workout at 3k race pace and your teammates are running at 8k race pace, they will have less difficulty stringing together a consecutive effort because they have much more in reserve.

b. Some people do great in interval workouts because they respond very well to rest breaks every 1-4 minutes. Again, could be a factor in setting up unrealistic expectations if you are in great interval shape but haven't filled in the gaps to be in race shape. This factor is probably some physical and mental hybrid, but it is usually the mid-distance specialists (1500m-3000m) who can feel comfortable ticking off the reps yet struggle when the races go beyond 10 minutes. 5k pace may feel comfortable when you only have to do it for 2-3 minutes. Different story when the rest period goes away and you have to run for 15-20 minutes straight. Which leads to point c...

c. Training history. Have your teammates accumulated more lifetime miles/more extensive training history? Any injury interruptions over the years? Where are your tempo runs? Long runs? What is your overall mileage? These factors all contribute to whether you can sustain a pace close you where you run your intervals. X times Ymeters in Z minutes doesn't tell us everything. The interval workouts are part of the puzzle but you need the tempo runs, long runs, and overall mileage to provide the underlying strength to hold your speed over a long continuous effort. Your 17:15 teammate, for whatever reason, has probably developed his overall aerobic ability to a greater degree and is simply not suffering as much midway through the race.

Look at the bigger picture and aim to reach the point where your underlying fitness is such that 17:15-5k becomes no big deal. You ran 17:35. An 18:30-5k effort is less than 100% of your max 5k effort. Do think the 18:30 runners are thinking, "Man, I wish I had the balls of that 17:35 guy up there. I tried to stay at his pace but didn't have the balls to hang."? Of course not. You are fitter than the 18:30 min guys and the 17:15 guys are fitter than you.
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Re: Mental Toughness [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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I'm with Fleck my best runs are pain free. If there is pain and tension I'm slowing down. I try to calm myself through tough moments. I think about my breathing or my stride rhythm, be smooth.
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Re: Mental Toughness [Snapple] [ In reply to ]
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[reply]Searched the forum and nothing good came up.

Anyone might have any suggestions?[/reply]

Yes, you are going to seek out that special place where the will to step up confronts the will to back off more often. I do it by racing as often as I can, that is the place where this battle gets played out. Hard to do in training, it isn't the same.

Some of this is just mere pain threshold stuff. I found myself on mile 22 in a marathon recently and my hip flexor was just killing me, I wanted to walk, I had to walk, see if it would ease off. Some times pain is so severe, few choices are left.

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I ride a Cervelo...get over it....
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Re: Mental Toughness [LarryP] [ In reply to ]
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They have studied the Kenyans and other African runners up and down to try and figure out why they are better. Other issues aside, one thing that they have found is that over the course of their training both life-time and yearly, most lack African distance runners spend more cumaltive time close to or at their race pace, than other runners in training and typically this is in sustained tempo like efforts. ie not an interval type of situation with pre-prescribed breaks.

Anectodotally, you can see this when they are racing. Despite, the withering pace that they are going at in the race 4:10, 4:30, 4:50/mile, they look completely relaxed and comfortable with barely any strain showing until perhaps the final 400 - 200m.

Fleck


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Mental Toughness [Snapple] [ In reply to ]
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you want a mental toughness training? do a 21k on the track with a certain speed(let yr watch beep every 200m). Do it when other people (faster and slower) are also on the track. try to focus on yr own speed and don't try to follow the faster people when they pass you.did it 2 months ago. most boring 83 minutes in my live BTW.
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Re: Mental Toughness [harm] [ In reply to ]
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Ok I got a couple of things to add to this conversation.

First, most of the answers here (aside from a couple like jhendrick) are just dripping with the typical BOP/MOP weenie attitude. I'm surprised no one said he needs to rework his nutrition.

What it sounds like is that Snapple needs to have more guts. He gives in to the pain and slows down. I got some news for you: most people don't know what they are capable of because they don't have any guts and they just give in when things get really painful. I'm not talking about injuries here - those are dangerous. But when you really push it, I guarentee you can keep going for a lot longer than you think. A workout I used to do is 15-15-15 easy-mod-HARD. It is a brutal workout I did every week and I discovered that what I thought was really hard for me, was really only the top of my 'mod' zone.

Here's a tip: when things start hurting, make it hurt more. Pick up the pace even if it's just by 1 second per mile. I bet you can keep going for a lot longer than you think you can. Be prepared to hurt. A LOT. But it's worth it.

Another thing - whoever said that their best races are pain free was probably not going hard enough. I think Paulo once said if you smile during a race, you're not going hard enough. If you can wave to the crowd, you're not going hard enough. Have you ever seen Bjorn Daehlie race? You think he collapses at the finish line of every race because he was 'pain free' the whole way? Or how bout Peter Robertson who layed down on the ground for nearly 5 minutes after last year's WCs?

Have more guts, and never ever ever give less than your absolute best. Give 100%, 100% of the time.
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Re: Mental Toughness [freestyle] [ In reply to ]
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I liked your reply. Did you see that video of those 2 ITU guys sprinting to the finish line and they both dove across the line trying to get the win and laid on the ground afterwards and had to be helped up? I mean these guys were at a flat out sprint and if the race was 10 meters longer might not have finished. That's making it hurt.



Portside Athletics Blog
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