I have mixed feelings. On the one hand she got away with something and should come clean in an effort to make amends. On the other hand it was utimately her decision to take drugs and I'm not sure she should punish those who helped her, even if helping her in that way was wrong.



Styrrell

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Styrrell

and her ex-husband/ex-coach is currently a top masters/ag'r that also is a pro coach....

while guilty until proven innocent is a nice goal, we have seen from baseball how effective that is; more peopple are dopping than anyone thinks.

gotta be honest, the article about roger beike as "hero" in one of the recent tri mags pissd me off. for whatever the merits of the case and for however nice a guy he is, the article was more about how wrong the testing is than the fact that everyone claims the same thing, unless they admit it. beike got off on a technicality pure and simple, and the mag wants to make him a hero. Yes, there can be a situaioint where the test was wrong, but that case is so slim that he should just keep his head down and we should let him go on without trying to make his case (which, again after everything we see about steriod users fits the standard, deny and go for a technicality defense) to be something heroic. Ad for the guy who called him a cheater, I think (given that many of the masters I race against are undoubtedly dopeing) that I would do the same thing.

Innoicent until proven guilty is a farce in drugs and sport..ask the maris family, or any of the swimmers who lost their wr's to the chinese, or to congress who had the "heros" of baseball lie, or simply refuse to answer honest questions, while calling the person who did admit usage a liar. ask why most tri records still stand from the non-testing times....

What's really lame is that you have an admitted PED user who is not getting any action taken against her past performances, while you have Tim Montgomery, who has never failed a drug test and has somewhat questionable testimony against him, having essentially his whole career and past earnings wiped out.

Tim Montgomery is only having his earning wiped out from the time it was determined that he was cheating. No one knows all of the evidence against him except the people in the hearing, but supposedly he admitted using to the grand jury and this testimony was used.



Styrrell

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Styrrell

Excuse me??

That's a pretty loaded little segue...can't imagine you're basing this on anything concrete, right?

-Mike

Dude, if you don't think AG'r are using EPO and HGH, given both the Outside article and the plethora of email spam for the stuff (not to mention how hyper competitive some older people in sports get), then I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn!

can't imagine you're basing this on anything concrete, right?

At some point, people will realize you can be using drugs without testing positive. The BALCO scandal should have taught us all that. It was noted earlier, on another thread, that Michelle Ferrari of Lance fame, said there are 3,000 performance enhancing drugs, and only 30 can be confirmed by current tests.

The idea that drugs will be stopped when the testing catches up is a myth that will never come to fruition. It's unfortunate but if we wait for positive drug tests, we will continue deluding ourselves that people in sports play fair.

I don't know how this will be resolved legally because it obviously opens the door to some pretty bad abuse. It has come down to this fact, a negative drug test is useless and says no more about the innocence than an athlete just denying involvement. Maybe they should stop testing until they figure out how to do it.

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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

Dude, drugs follow money, and there ain't no money is masters triathlon.

Do some masters triathletes "use" EPO and HGH? Perhaps, but not without taking incredible health risks at very low reward -- absent money, no one really cares about your results more than you do. Irrational as all hell, but certainly possible.

My beef is when people get careless about making general accusations. As for bridges, I'd prefer the GWB if you're selling! ;-)

-Mike

I'm pretty sure it's EX-husband for some time now and they each live in different countries seperated by many thousands of miles.

I confess. I take Smarties before each race and workout for an energy boost. Are Smarties a banned substance?

Dude, drugs follow money, and there ain't no money is masters triathlon.


It ain't about money. You obviously don't spend any time at the FOP and seeing how tweaked several of those type are. The amount of ego and self-worth tied up in results for some of these guys is waaaay beyond money, which many of them have plenty of, thank you. Ever seen serious masters bike racers or sr. tennis at a state level? It is much more important than money...

mike has spent more time at the FOP than just about everyone else here. with that being said, it is not all about the money. it's all about ego, insecurities and doing whatever it takes to succeed. drugs are everywhere -- high school sports, money sports, non money sports, etc -- so i don't understand why the original poster seems to think that it just is a problem for 40+ guys doing triathlons. with no testing, drugs that dramatically improve performance that are easy to get and a lot of hypercompetitive type a people looking to excel, it is a pretty safe bet that a lot of the age groupers are dirty -- just don't tar and feather only the masters guys. sports need to come down with some severe penalties, like going after past prize money and lifetime bans, to help slow down the use of drugs. erasing several years worth of tm's performances was a step in the right direction for t&f.

That article in Bicycling Mag on Ferrari has haunted me. I always knew where I stood until reading it. 3000 banned substances and 30 can be tested? What a joke! How can an organization ban substances without being able to prove it? We're supposed to believe that these guys(pro cyclists) are going to abstain BECAUSE it is the right thing to do. There is enormous amounts of money to be made here. Look at our captains of industry-they can't seem to stop themselves from falsifying sales, lying to stockholders, ect-and these are the educated ones. Imagine coming from the ex-RDA and having some talent. There is no other way outta there.

Oh my, reggie, we're not all anonymous here, so you might want to check some results before popping off.

And since I'm talking about masters triathlon, and there really is no money, and health issues are way more important to those crazy guys up at the FOP, I can rest assured that all my hard work isn't being wasted due to being beaten by guys taking HGH and EPO. Trust me on that.

It's out there, for sure, just not among the group I run with. So back to my point, let's not make general accusations without some proof.

-Mike

Open mouth. Insert foot.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

I usually stay in the shadows when reading accusatory posts that are negative, sad, and way too cynical but I had to chime in when clicking on 'mpl201' because I met you guys at Lake Placid! I was next door to you guys and racing as a 'MooseNugget.' How's the family, Mike?

Reggiedog, I think mpl201 went around 9:15 at Ironman Hawaii. I can't be sure since I don't have the results, but i'll let you figure out what his results are and if they qualify him for 'FOP' status.

mike egan

FOP or not FOP I have seen some pretty incredible changes in body appearances/ preformance in middle aged athletes. Like a guy that has been racing 10 plus years drops 5 min in a 40 k TT from 57 to 52 and is totally ripped looking. I guess that could be a late puberty.

Or all of a sudden someone that goes a 2:20 International time for the last five years or so now goes2:10 ish and seems to be a little more edgy and puffy in the cheeks. When I worked for the YMCA I could spot the "users " a mile away in the gym, when confronted they all said... yea. Cause I like the results.

Yea sometimes people improve in bunches, but I have known a number of people in my 40 plus years of athletics on the juice. Some have even asked me for some meds from work. Why would a recreational weight lifters, triathletes, bike riders, and moms juice? Cause they can and like the results. Why do any of us compete if it is not for the money? Cause we like to. Some people like to win more than others and will do what they can to help themselves do it.

Hah!!!! Too funny... out of all the people to call out for "not being FOP"!!! Wrong choice Reggiedoggy!!!

Kona 2004: 95th o/a 10:00:02 LLERANDI, MIKE RIDGEWOOD NJ USA 4th/239 M40-44

Kona 2005: 105th o/a 09:21:47 Llerandi, Mike Ridgewood NJ USA 5th/248 M40-44

I don't know Mike but I know that he is at the top if his game and his brother was a world class ITU racer in the mid 90's. Before you open your yapper, do your homework.

Sorry if you felt inferior and was singled out for being a poser and wearing a skirt.

While this thread obviosuly wasn't about "you", fortuntately you were able to respond to a general drugs discussion in true ST fashion with the words "me", "I", or "we" at least once in every sentence. You get double points for getting others to post your (truly excellent) accomplishments.

Now back to the original thread...let me revise my pitch: Dude, look around you: high school football, non-sport college fraternities, Sr. Tennis, masters swimming, the Outside article, the other posts in this thread, all the EPO and HGH spam, MLB, etc. etc. It is proven that drugs work, that they are easy to get and it is a given that every part of society has cheaters.

So, now explain why you think triathlon is different?

How do you like the way the Ferrari article ended!

After the Dr. professes his innocence for the 100th time, oh yeah...then the little incident where he rode onto the tri course with a forged race number to push his daughter forward!

I let out an "Oh my God"-my son came running wondering what had happened. Frankly, i think it summed the whole thing up. But, I thought the real meat was the idea the author expressed about taking cyclists who had won day races and/or a stage; turning them into winners of the TdF and other major stage races. I mean we all know, see and watch all kinds of athletes-this kind of turn around is practically unheard of-at this level.

and being president of the united states is way more important than having sex with an intern...

good one!

But if you recall, it was a calculated risk: "I never had sexual relations with that woman..." -- awfully hard to get an STD from the action that I heard described...;-)

A risk/reward tradeoff is irrational when it is inconsistent with a person's risk profile: Would I be willing to risk dying in my sleep to help improve my chances of qualifying for Kona? Maybe for some, but wow, that's pretty damn dumb. That's why I'm saying that drugs chase $$ (the more $$, the more likely there are PEDs in play) -- and since there is no money whatsoever in masters triathlon, you've got to be pretty irrational to put your health at risk that way.