IMO I don't think this decision hurts him at all. I doubt the average triathlete knows who Tyler Hamilton is or really cares who he is (I didn't and I don't, I'm a triathlete, not a cyclist). I think the bottom line is if Matt Reed is still in advertisements in Triathlete Magazine and other various Magazines and showing up and smoking races, then his marketability will remain largely unchanged, since most advertisements are looking to attract the masses, which are the average triathlete and not the few who already know everything about the sport because those are the ones who do tons of research and already know what they are going to buy and will not be influenced by an advertisement with a pro triathlete endorsing it.

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-Bryan Journey
Travel Blog | Training Blog | Facebook Page

Furthermore he should have been banned for life, cause it was second time.

The AmericanPeople is the compassionate, forgiving type. Fallibility is an inseparable quality of human nature and all men are created weak and are prone to make mistakes……..it is only when people lose sight of these realities, that things like a pro-cyclist being busted for PED's become shocking and traumatic.

I don’t think 20mg of DHEA should cost a man his livelihood, even if it was his second offense, but that’s just how I see things.

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**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**

Oh man, I've been watching this thread and holding my tongue but now my discression is going to the wind which is probably not my best choice of the day. However, here it goes......................

OK, maybe I'm missing something here but why and the heck does Matt Reed need to explain himself anyway? I guess I just don't understand that? Also, who really cares who his coach is and why should we? Why do we want to punish Matt Reed for what his coach did AND has been punished for? Tyler got caught and his punishment is 8 years out of doing what he loves to do most in his entire life. And in my opinion that is pretty damn harsh considering the ramifications that would have gotten him in baseball or football which is basically a 1 year suspension. He took a risk, got caught and is paid up. Sooooooo Mr. Jack "Freaking" Mott why is it your so important that Matt should really even care what your opinion of him is based on who his coach is? Just a thought here but I'm a recovering alchoholic and addict with 7 years clean and sober. Should my wife not have married me because of my transgressions? Should none of my employees be working for me? What about my triathlon coach? Maybe she should run for the hills? Honestly, anyone who really thinks Matt Reed shouldn't open his arms to Tyler as a cycling coach is an idiot. Tyler won't be putting Matt into restraints and pushing a needle in his butt. The only person that can put a PED into Matt is himself and until MATT and not Tyler tests positive I don't give a rats ass who his coach is and neither should anyone else. Tyler's punishment was an 8 year ban from the sport so can't we leave his punishment at that and not try to persecute everyone who is associated with him? Man, all you freaking arm chair judges are really irritating because of your complete lack of an inability to grasp the fact that you really are not walking on clouds.

And as for PED's and someone getting caught using them I honestly could care less because it has about zero bearing on my life or how fast I go. I was never at a level of anything to where taking a PED made any sense because "the risk" wouldn't have gained me any significant "rewards." And I really don't think that making it to Kona is a big enough reward to take a PED. It would not substantially increase the quality of my life or my families life. So do I really care if I were to be #7 at a race where only 6 made it to Kona in my division and know that someone used PEDs? NO, because I think their an idiot to take that risk. In my mindset taking PED's is dangerous in so many different ways and just like anything is a "risk" and we all need to way our "risk" vs. "reward" scenario. Whether we like it or not people are going to continue to use PED's just like people drink, use drugs and suffer from eating disorders. Everyone wants to call people who utilize PED's a "cheater" which is interesting to me. In my mindset I think they are just taking a much larger "risk" to obtain their perceived "reward." To some of us that reward is either not high enough to take the risk or the risk is too high for the reward. Tyler risked an 8 year ban to win some cycling races and earn more money and greater fame. I'm guessing very few of us will ever be in the situation to where we even have the ability to assess that type of "risk" vs. "reward" scenario and until we are in that place I think judgement is unwarranted. For example, if I grew up dirt poor, not even able to afford a pair of shoes or put food on the table and I knew that using PED's would take me from a 6th round draft pick to a 1st rounder and a multi-million dollar pay check then I'm about 99% sure I would take that "risk" because my rewards are so great and I'm only risking going back to where I came from? Obviously that wasn't Tyler's situation. However, I use that as an example because nobody here can say for 100% certainty they would NEVER use a PED if the right "risk" vs. "reward" situation presented itself. Also, if Lance came out tomorrow and said he used PED's (and whether we like it or not there is a lot of evidence via a guy named Frankie and his wife and other stuff to say he "might" have) I wouldn't like him any less because I see what he has done and the quality of life improvements he has made for others from the rewards he has reaped. If he came out we would have to ask the question............How many people were cured of cancer because Lance took PEDs? Not a question many want to face!!

So please go ahead and crush my theology and condemn me for not giving a rats ass who takes PEDs and even taking it one step further and not condemning those whom do get caught using them! They take a risk and will face the consequences if they are caught.

SwBkRn44, where has Hamilton gone down a similiar path in coaching that he went during his pro career? Can you provide examples?

No, of course I can't. But do you think your company would hire an accounting firm who had Bernie Madoff on it's board of advisors? What if you suggested this to the head of your company and he said, "Are you crazy?" And then your reply was, "But boss, can you provide an example of where he has gone down a similar path as an advisor as he did when he was running an investment firm?" Do you think that would sway your boss' opinion?

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Portside Athletics Blog

Bjorn won't be racing because I plan on organizing a poker game the night before the race and will likely win his bike. :)
you in Jordan?

Hamilton tested positive for blood doping after winning an Olympic medal, but because the B sample was botched he was able to keep his medal. He tested positive AGAIN for blood doping after winning a TT stage of the Vuelta. This time the A and B samples were positive.

He was later implicated in Operation Puerto.

Years later, after his ban, he tested positive for testerone, which he blamed on 20 mg of DHEA that he was using for depression.

Nobody saying he's beyond forgiveness but the case for banning him from the sport is pretty strong.

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http://snappletriteam.com/

I think Matt has answered this. He has known Tyler for years, has ridden with him many times and Tyler knows Matt's strengths and weaknesses. There are probably very few people that have all of that AND have an extensive store of bicycling knowledge.

Personally, am I going to boycott a sponsor because Matt is using Tyler as a coach in a limited way because of something Tyler did as a pro cyclist? That is stupid. Tyler is paying the consequences for the past. That has nothing to do with his coaching of Matt. Good luck Matt. I think trying to excel at ITU, long and short course racing all at the same time will be a real challenge. If you succeed, sponsor will not be a problem.

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http://www.EpixGear.com

I have never taken PEDs because they are cheating and I believe in not cheating.
It is about personal ethics, not risk vs reward. Ethics is a word missing from your post.

The distinction for me between Tyler etc and most of the actors politicians you mentioned is that they did morally questionable stuff/broke the law in situations not directly related to their profession. For example I don't give a shit if Tiger Woods is still competing in golf in spite of his recent affairs no matter how morally wrong they may have been. If he would have get caught for doping or manipulating the score card, or whatever the hell you do to cheat in golf, then I'd be shocked if he could still compete. That's not to say that other bad PR can't be detrimental to a career and make someone badly suited as a role model but for me there's a difference when it comes to sport/cheating and how to deal with those who broke the rules.

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BA coaching http://www.bjornandersson.se

why do I want to try to win Bjorn's bike? I have a bike... ;)

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Sorry I gave you the wrong impression...you wouldn't be winning anything that night either. ;)

Maybe you want something faster? :-p

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BA coaching http://www.bjornandersson.se

Personally, am I going to boycott a sponsor because Matt is using Tyler as a coach in a limited way because of something Tyler did as a pro cyclist? That is stupid. Tyler is paying the consequences for the past. That has nothing to do with his coaching of Matt. Good luck Matt. I think trying to excel at ITU, long and short course racing all at the same time will be a real challenge. If you succeed, sponsor will not be a problem.

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I think this goes along to Dev's response about sponsorship issues:

I'm a middle of the road semi new triathlete (2 years), and I frequent ST daily and I am familiar atleast with being able to id the top male athletes in the sport, but at the same time, I couldnt tell you half the sponsors that any of these guys have. The only guy I can tell you flat out who is a big sponsor is K Swiss with Leito, other than that I'd be hard pressed to even tell you who sponsors Macca or Matt Reed.

Edit: Besides bike sponsors I'm not sure I could name any other sponsors of the athletes.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

nicely played!

A set of principles of right conduct. b. A theory or a system of moral values: "An ethic of service is at war with a craving for gain" (Gregg Easterbrook). 2. ethics (used with a sing. verb) The study of the general nature of morals and of the specific moral choices to be made by a person; moral philosophy. 3. ethics (used with a sing. or pl. verb) The rules or standards governing the conduct of a person or the members of a profession: Using PED's is NOT an ethical or moral debate for we will never know the exact purpose behind the persons intentions in utilzing PEDs. For there are certain situations in life where we would all agree the utilization of PED's to win would be a ethically acceptable decision. For if we knew ahead of time that if someone utilized PED to obtain great fame but then they saved thousands of lives through that great fame would we call that an "immoral" decision to utilize PEDs? Just like when we dropped the bombs on Japan. Was that an unethical decision even though it may have saved what was estimated at up to a million lives and ended the war? So, by your theory anyone who utilizes PED's is "Immoral and lacks Ethics?" That's quite the harsh judement on someone that was raised in a society to where we judge the morality and work "ethics" many days based upon ones success. In my opinion whether someone is moral and ethical is not determined by whether they use PED's or not. Just because someone uses PED's doesn't mean they condone murder or rape! We may judge a specific action as moral or ethical but then why is utilizing PED's unethical or immoral? You say utilizing them is cheating which is unethical or immoral. Therefore, if we allowed them to be open to the market they would be equally available to anyone wouldn't they? So if we say it is cheating to utilize PED's the only reason would be because they are not equally available to everyone but then again not all the great equipment is either? So if PED's were available to everyone equally would it still be cheating? Let's say they were and someone utilized them would that action still be immoral? You can find many ways to debate this? If you say they are immoral or unethical because they are a drug then ummmmmm, yeah we won't even get into all the stuff 99% of American's put in their body daily to change how it operates. Moral and ethics are "opinions" and therefore irrelevent to the debate. I'm guessing Tyler Hamilton isn't an immoral person because he used PED's. Tyler is a moral person who took a risk for a reward and was caught so he has to suffer the consequence which is an 8 year ban. As for utilizing PED's it may be considered cheating and unethical because they are not equally available to everyone which would then mean it would also be cheating to use better equipment?

x2, well said

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CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK

We should have a cold one over this.

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CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK

I'd have a cold "lemonade" with you to debate. Please know I'm not condoning the use of PED's! I just feel too many people make a much larger issue of it than what it needs to be. Just like anything there is not enough education on the use of PED's because most everyone just knows them as "ethically" wrong and more people are willing to take a risk breaking an ethical rule than they are willing to put their body at risk! There needs to be more explanation as to "why" they are illegal and should not be used and less "moral" and "ethical" debates. Are they wrong to use because some dude arbitrarily said not everyone has access to those. Therefore, they are banned? Or are they banned because they can cause harm to ones body and are a risk to use and we do not want our sport recognized as one that promotes unhealthy drug use? Using PED's are a "risk!" It is not a moral or ethical discussion. If you are willing to risk heart failure, unknown aging defects, liver and kidney issues, banishment from your sport, bad press, and more then you are more willing to win than I am! That is a "risk" I'm not willing to take. However, I will never say there wouldn't be a situation presented to where the "reward" didn't warrant the "risk" of which I would then have to suffer the consequences of my actions. However, one of those rewards would have to be that the situation would have to be a "moral" reward.

http://www.break.com/...olympics-626330.html

I disagree with most of what you said but I apologize for my rude, intentional comment.

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CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK

It's ok. I found it quite funny. Having a cold one is not unethical or wrong. My guess is most probably have a different stance than what I do but not everyone comes from the same place. Some live in ignorance. Others don't :-)

The distinction for me between Tyler etc and most of the actors politicians you mentioned is that they did morally questionable stuff/broke the law in situations not directly related to their profession.\\

I gave you some examples of baseball players who have come back, and there are as many football, soccer, cyclist, and basketball players that are in the same category..But that was not my original point, it was that you cannot compare Tyler and his high profile profession with some dock worker, or mailman. And I said I agree with you that he should not come back and race professionally, but coaching is another matter altogether. I think that once you start to follow someone everywhere for past transgressions, and try and penalize them at every step, it seems more punative at that point. And as I said, I do not think it is a blanket policy, we have to feel as a majority that this person deserves this 2nd, 3rd, or whatever chance to pursue a career and be able to support a family and have a decent life. Like Arod, Magic, Kareem, Petit, Riis, Indurian, and a lot more, I think Tyler is that category of fallen heros that ought to be able to try and find his niche in the sport that he spent his whole life doing.

But once again just my opinion, we will see if it is the majority opinion or not I guess..

I'm with ya flippy.

Some of the stories we hear in meetings (assuming you go) put Tylers poor choices to make him ride a silly bike race a little faster into perspective. One guy was talking about his favorite pastime of taking the pets of the party throwers in a locked room, shaving them down and drawing horrible crap all over them with a sharpie. You wouldn't know it to look at the guy. He's super nice and is a nurse now... but on the sauce, look out.

This is a much better thread because of this hijack. :)

-Jot

I disagree with most of what you said but I apologize for my rude, intentional comment.

No sarcasm intended:t way to man up and apologize. Most people can't do that
and those that can, I add to me list of people who might not want to talk to me, but
I'd be willing to shoot the shit with. :)

-Jot