That's the one. I also remembered an interesting article on Alan Couzen's blog recently that discussed how many (all?) of the African runners use some form on interval training YEAR ROUND. Not really surprising, since, like swimming, running is a skill sport. I think that's a big part (my own opinion), that falls in among a host of other reasons.

“Why should I practice running slow? I already know how to be slow. I want to learn how to be fast”
- Emil Zatopek

---

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

African runners use some form on interval training YEAR ROUND.

Jordan,

World class distance runners never get too far away from their top form - they can't afford to for several reasons. It's very competitive. Their are big money road races and track meets going on literally year round.

Look at Bekele of Haile G - these guys are never that far away from their top form. They don't just check out and run easy for 3 - 4 months in the off season. Their barely is an off season for them. They never get that far away from their ability to run at 4:30 min/mile pace and to do that you need to be keeping the speed up almost year round.

So yes, their is some form of higher intensity interval training of some sort going on almost year round. However, this is nothing new. It's the way that serious runners have been training for a long time. Back when I was only running in the '70's - about the only months of the year where we were not running some type of intervals and doing faster training was November and December. Come January, we were right into Indoor track season and then Indoor track season merged right into outdoor track season that lasted till the end of August and then it was right into Cross country season that went until early November and on it went.

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I am by no means saying that lydiard didn't have a HUGE impact on how we conceptualize or even prescribe training. And I do think his methods are somewhat misunderstood by the LSD group. And i think i didn't convey my meaning correctly when i said coe would have flourished under any coach he trusted. What i meant is that coe, snell, armstrong, ryun, phelps, ets... all succeed in large part due to a relationship with their coach that goes beyond what workouts to do when and when to race. training system be damned there is something to be said for having complete in your coach which allows you to have complete confidence and trust in your training which allows you to have complete trust in your ability to perform. and yes you are right i give a lot of credit to talent. but not in the sense that talent is the inate ability to swim, bike or run fast regardless of training. but the ability to absorb, respond to and coninually progress your training. As rappstar pointed out, load is not necessarily volume. that is only a small part of a very large picture.

I understand L4+L5 training in general prep but what are the objectives of training the anaerobic/neuromuscular systems during this period?

Thanks for the history lesson! Don't get me wrong; I loved Zofingen and it's one race I really want to go back and race again. Part of the reason I enjoyed it was the low-key atmosphere, the kids lining the streets as we rode through the surrounding villages reaching out for high-fives, and the warm welcome of the volunteers and other locals. I just found it surprising that it once had a similar profile to Kona - I knew it used to be a bigger race, but I didn't realise it was truly one of the big ones.

think of it like this. you are trying to build the most efficient car possible. this is accomplished through 2 main ways. improving fuel economy by having the engine burn less gas per mile and improving things that have no relation to your engine such as maintaining tire pressure, having efficient suspension for the type of road you drive on etc. You improve your engine through your normal endurance training (all zones) and the completely anaerobic/neuromuscular training (short fast all out sprints, plyos, weights) improve the muscles ability to store and release energy independent of any fuel metabolism going on.

Although this will take it well beyond one sentence I think it's important to emphasize that general to specific isn't just about intensity. I would add that an increase in variability is something I would reserve for a general prep period and something I would try to avoid during race prep. In addition, a progression from a road bike or riding in the hoods a lot (on your tri bike) to your race bike/race position is desirable.

Thanks, Chris

I'll edit your post so it's readable:

"general to specific isn't just about intensity. An increase in variability is something for a general prep period. Avoid variability during race prep. A progression from a road bike to race bike/race position is desirable."

It still makes no sense however.

Not to mention that we already know that Chris Thanks has a problem with the word variability...

---

-

The Triathlon Squad

Like us on Facebook!!!

Nope. I have no problem with the word variability, just disrespectful assholes...

of course not, it is about training load, IOW volume + intensity

what do you mean by variability?!?

---

Jorge Martinez
Head Coach - Sports Science
E3 Training Solutions, LLC
@CoachJorgeM

You broke your promise:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...latest_reply;so=ASC;

Now you're calling me names, Mr. Thanks. That is pretty disrespectful (insert passive ellipsis here)

---

-

The Triathlon Squad

Like us on Facebook!!!

"(all?) of the African runners use some form on interval training YEAR ROUND."

i don't know that i would take this as gospel. and if this is true, i think there's more to the story than that. here's what i thought was an interesting peek at a national caliber kenyan semi-enclave (not world class runner yet, but on their way). this diary entry noted "when I was there in December, the three were in base training for cross country." this blog entry seemed to me typical of east african running regimes.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I am almost afraid to jump in here with all the experienced people talking about this; but this conversation is exactly what a lot of guys like me are trying to figure out. First I am the guy described above - (If they are working on their own, they probably just go slow and long and never really get faster until they realize that they need some speed work).

49 yrs old, 185lbs. good equipment. 2nd year in triathlon. Last year the run was my weakest part of the tri. I did three Olympics and one 1/2IM. The run in the 1/2 let me know that I was way under prepared for the run. (bike was averaging about 20.5mph feeling good at all the events)

This year I am working hard on the run. I am trying to work as hard as I can without hurting my knees (no prior injuries) just feel that I am just getting strong to stop being so careful with the knees. This week is a recovery week so I am doing everything at 1/2 length but a bit higher pace.

In a normal week I am doing 260 minutes (run) my long run is 110 minutes increasing 10% a week (slow pace)(the other runs are 50 minutes a bit faster pace), 100 minutes of swimming (long swim is 48 minutes), and I am light on the biking time right now. Core almost every day with stretching every workout.

The problem with the running is that I am so slow. 10 minute miles on the long run and 9 minute miles on the short runs. I feel like I am working hard and am in good shape but so many people are talking about 10-15 hours a week and running sub 3:20 marithons. What should I change or how many more miles of base do I put in to see my times come down.

I would be happy to be a ginea-pig; I am committed to getting better; if you have some suggestions.

Thanks - sorry for rambling.

---

Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

I figured by now in the life of this thread that it might be appropriate that we bring up a certain truism.

"More is MORE."

---

36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

Rather than interrupt this thread with a very lengthy, but somewhat relevant IMHO, post, I thought I'd start a new thread and link to it instead:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=2182666;#2182666

The "abstract"?
Mark Allen / Maffetone / Low HR training – lengthy excerpt from Noakes' Lore of Running

From time to time, threads come up on these subjects and I'm always reminded of a section from Noakes' Lore of Running (Fourth Edition) - I think it's a great book and a fascinating read. But on the off chance that you won't all rush out and buy it on my recommendation, I asked him for permission to post this entire excerpt on Slowtwitch and he graciously said yes. Enjoy!

I'm sorry... what is HR????

I don't recall that being a direct indicator of metabolic stress.

---

36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

Human Resources. Hanging out with those types is enough to stress out just about anybody...

---

<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?

LOL...

sorta like this guy...

http://jmtskyviews.com/...g/images/catbert.jpg

on g-chrome... can't post the pic

---

36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
Garmin Glycogen Use App | Garmin Fat Use App

Any ideas what type of splits it'd take to get to worlds? Does a german citizen living in the us have to go back to germany to qualify for worlds in the us or is registration a bit more open?

I'm just wondering when you guys get the opportunity to put all this amazing knowledge into practice....


Slowman's posts:


Jan 26, 09 15:23
Jan 26, 09 17:54
Jan 26, 09 18:11
Jan 26, 09 18:46
Jan 26, 09 19:00
Jan 26, 09 19:21
Jan 26, 09 19:53
Jan 26, 09 20:18
Jan 26, 09 20:46
Jan 27, 09 7:29
Jan 27, 09 7:35
Jan 27, 09 7:46
Jan 27, 09 7:51
Jan 27, 09 9:35
Jan 27, 09 9:47
Jan 27, 09 10:56
Jan 27, 09 17:40


Markyv's posts:


Jan 26, 09 17:52
Jan 26, 09 17:58
Jan 26, 09 18:13
Jan 26, 09 18:38
Jan 26, 09 21:47
Jan 26, 09 21:51
Jan 26, 09 21:53
Jan 26, 09 22:39
Jan 27, 09 0:16
Jan 27, 09 0:20
Jan 27, 09 0:52
Jan 27, 09 9:37
Jan 27, 09 9:39
Jan 27, 09 9:40
Jan 27, 09 9:49
Jan 27, 09 21:30
Jan 27, 09 22:45
Jan 27, 09 22:55



I don't have a catch phrase either.

---

http://www.sweat7.com - Coaching for Newbies

http://www.samwarriner.co.nz - That's just me!

Karen Smyers is an example of someone who, from what I've read, didn't really focus on building a big base over the winter in Boston. Instead she trained more like a typical AGer, doing high-quality indoor cycling and running sessions after taking a break after Hawaii.

She had a very long career near or at the top with success from sprints to IM.

I think the key take-away from AC's blog is this part:

1. Use short intervals (ONLY) during the base period.
Essen (1978) found that providing the length of the training interval was kept short (15-30s), exercise performed in excess of VO2max elicited glycogen depletion patterns and lactate levels much more in accordance with tempo or threshold training, i.e. 2-4mmol/L lactate even when continued for 30-60 minutes (i.e. 30-60 repetitions).

So the overall effect is more of a tempo effort, except with some additional fiber recruitment. There is a good article by Kirk Willet on the training effect of microintervals, basically what I've noticed analyzing my power files doing Billat 30/30's or the standard 60/60: my normalized power reveals more of an overall L3 or L4 effort. Quoting Andy from the wattage list:

For example, an intervals workout consisting of 15
seconds on, 15 seconds off at 400 W results in similar VO2, HR, ventilation,
RER, lactate concentrations/release, glycogen utilization, etc., as
continuous exercise at 200 W. About the only difference is the motor units
recruited to do the task (more stress placed on type II fibers when exercise
is intermittent).

Now, if you look at a week of the base training that Dan linked to in the article:

Monday -- M: 45:00 high / T: rest / E: rest
Tuesday -- M: 60:00 average / T: rest / E: rest
Wednesday -- M: 40:00 easy / T: 45:00 fartlek / E: 40:00 diagonals
Thursday -- M: 45:00 easy / T: Striding / E: rest
Friday -- M: 30:00 average / T: 1:30 gym / E: 45:00 easy
Saturday -- M: 45:00 easy / T: 30:00 high / E: 35:00 exercises
Sunday -- M: 12K trial / T: rest / E: rest


That, to me at least, is quite a bit of fast and moderate running: Three fast days (two "high" & 12k trial), one "average", one fartlek, plus diagonals (sprint diagonals on a football field, jog the straights).

Compared to a 100 mile Lydiard "base" week:

Monday -- 10 miles (15km) at 1/2 effort over undulating course
Tuesday -- 15 miles (25km) at 1/4 effort over reasonably flat
Wednesday -- 12 miles (20km) at 1/2 effort over hilly course
Thursday -- 18 miles (30km) at 1/4 effort over reasonably flat
Friday -- 10 miles (15km) at 3/4 effort over flat course
Saturday -- 22 miles (35km) at 1/4 effort over reasonably flat
Sunday -- 15 miles (25km) at 1/4 effort over any type terrain

Which also has a fair amount of intensity (again, at least to me): 2 "1/2" efforts over hills and 1 "3/4" effort (Lydiard defined 1/2 effort as a workout you could do the next day, but not 3 days in a row, and 3/4 effort as one you'd need 2 days easy to recover from).

It gets dicey when we talk in terms of "easy/hard" without putting easy & hard into context. When I first started running I did everything "easy", only to find out later after getting my LTHR and finding my VDOT that I was basically doing all my runs as recovery runs. Running in Friel zone 2 or Daniels' E pace was, and still is, quite a fair pace... but maybe that's because I'm a middle-aged desk jockey that can't handle a lot of intensity OR volume. But overall, I think that taking into account the nature of the interval, doing intervals year round is not only a good idea, but also fits well with what many would consider "base" training.

See, you are the perfect example of someone who doesn't HAVE a base yet ... 2nd year in tri and 9-10 min paces that seem hard. Don't worry much and just run and run some more. Your speed will come with simply running more and longer. Little need for speed work - or just race often and that will be your speed work.

---

____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD