You are my doppelgänger. I am currently using the Hanson advanced plan for a fall marathon and supplementing one or two easy runs per week with trainer rides. I am currently 41 and too have a history of injuries at marathon mileage of 60-70MPW. I ran my last marathon two years ago in 3:05. I sure hope we are on to something with the rides-for-easy runs or else that closing 10K is going to be a real b*tch.

I trained for a marathon to do with my wife in the middle of training for a Half Ironman, so I followed a similar regimen. Basically I would do a medium run and a long run each week. Then a short brick off the bike. Everything else was swim or bike to build the endurance without the beating. My results:

- I hurt my IT band again - but this is due to week hips in general, not the training. I was able to recover and build by about 2 miles per long run each week leading up to the marathon.
- I ran my PR and right around my goal (3:27 vs 3:25 goal)
- My legs definitely hurt after the race. I think I was not used to enough of the pounding. They hurt for a 4-6 days or so afterwards.

I have no idea how I would have done following a traditional plan and then doing Tri training after the marathon wrapped up, but it sure beat the hell of pounding out mile after mile on my knees.

Look into powercranks on a bike trainer. Will help your running while biking.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I think that's a great idea. Bike, or consider aqua jogging?

Everyone is different (I think this should be an axiom....) and responds to training differently and recovers differently. To me personally there's no such thing as a recovery run. Every run gives me a beating and every run requires recovery. In fact I'm beginning to think that easy/slow runs take a greater toll on knees and hips than the tempo runs. I seem to glide over the ground with a better gait and take less of a beating when I run fast. Slower runs are harder on my body. I may consider a slow run when I get symptoms of overtraining (rather than skip a run). That's about it. For recovery I look elsewhere.

I don't think it will make any difference if you skip the runs and do nothing or skip them and do a bike ride. The amount of cross benefit is negligible. I read an article on thus a few years ago but can't track it down.

Aqua running might give you enough specificity I'm not sure though.

I've been swapping recovery runs for rides as well. As my training goes on and my MPW increases I will swap over to recovery runs. I have been worried about re injuring my IT band and Peroneal tendinitis from last year. I think injury prevention trumps MPW every time. As long as you aren't skimping on the big workouts i.e. LSD Tempo/speed then you should be fine. Have a great race

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

What do you feel you are accomplishing by replacing a run with a bike ride?

The point of a recovery run is to run on pre-fatigued legs thus get a bump in run specific fitness....it is a misnomer really...it is not a run to promote recovery it is a run during the recovery period between harder run workouts.

I'm in my late 40s and followed Hansons for my May marathon. Been running year round since 2008, but low mileage. I was able to follow it for nine weeks, took a week off for an Oly tri, and then as soon as I resumed the brutal six days of week of Hansons, I blew my ankle, possibly a stress fracture. From then on it was injury after injury. Rolled the other ankle, piriformis, hamstring issues... I even took off a few weeks for a vacation while injured but kept walking.

Since I was injured, I replaced the Saturday runs with long (60-90K) rides, but they were like interval training because I had to keep up with much faster riders and I was redlining it well, most of the time. On one of my weekends, I did 100K bike on Saturday, followed on Sunday by 26K run, the last 5K running uphill to simulate marathon fatigue. I had a spotty last month due to the injuries, and had no idea what would happen on the day of the marathon, my first.

Due to my injuries, I ran the first 30K only a little faster than my Easy "A" pace, feeling great, and the plan was to open the throttle for the last 12K if I felt good. Hansons delivered even though I'd only done maybe 70% of the prescribed runs. Hansons had promised that you'd feel great at 30K, the idea of the training that it would prepare you for the last 10K from cumulative fatigue. From 30-40K I ran faster than marathon pace to BQ and I felt really good. Things started crumbling over the final 2K in that I just *started* feeling tired. Over the last 1K I was really fading, but still managed a closing pace faster than my BQ pace.

There are articles showing that cycling helps running, and vice versa. IMHO, long sustained efforts on the bike translate well to long sustained efforts running, provided that the bike efforts are done at speed. They are a great way to avoid the pounding for us older athletes. I'm a sample size of one, and what do I know, but I could not explain away how I could possibly perform that day given my spotty training and injuries. I could only chalk it up to my Hansons base, the long rides, and one more element, training on hills almost all of the time.

You're much faster than I am, so take my experience FWIW.

I found that swimming 5 days a week also seemed to help my over all racing with better conditioning.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Here's just one link for the cross benefits: http://running.competitor.com/...better-running_76393 Also, the reason why I replaced the Saturday run in particular is simply because that's when the club rides.

+1

I'm a follower of the camp that says there's nothing better than sport-specific training as long as you can stay injury-free. With that said, if you get 3 key quality workouts on a regular basis -- tempo (speed), hills (strength), long run (endurance) -- you can use cross training (cycling, aqua-jogging, uphill walking, etc) as a substitute for more road miles. Earlier this year I had to take a forced break from running and used uphill walking on the treadmill to great effect training for a marathon.

Other things to try to save your legs are getting off concrete/asphalt and onto dirt when you can. Also consider super-cushioned shoes for your long runs, they really do help you feel less beat up the next day.

And don't become a slave to the training plan. One really good piece of advice I was given was to take the day off when your legs really feel like crap and you feel run down, even if the plan says to do a run. Do something non-impact instead to flush out your legs and promote recovery. The key workouts are the ones that matter, everything else is to get you in the best position to do them well.

Hope this helps.

[Edit] One thing to add for the OP. You have 10 years of experience so your body knows running and you've done the big weeks so you have the engine. I have no doubt you can have great success with under 60mpw as long as they're quality miles. Use cross training to alleviate that guilty feeling that you're not doing enough (we all know we feel it.... haha!).

You can absolutely do this. I'm also mid-40s and did a 3:15 earlier this year on 45mpw and I've only been doing this for a few years. Use your experience to your advantage.

hei, you are a great athlete


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Sports Change Your Life: cycling jersey

I have used the Hanson plan 3 times now. With the Hanson plan I ran 3:07/3:02/2:59, so not too far off where you were for your last marathon (but a couple years younger).

From my experience with the Hanson plan, I would say that if you are planning on skipping the easy runs then you should find a new plan.

The Hanson plan is already pretty light on the mileage compared to other plans, so in absence of the easy runs you just won't run enough. If your goal is simply to run a decent race as opposed to run to the best of your potential/ability, why bother with the intensity of the interval/marathon pace workouts?

From my last session through the Hanson plan, I was doing 30-40 mpw in month 1, 35-45 mpw in month 2, 45-56 mpw in month 3, and a bit less in month 4, which is way less than the mileage in your last plan. I would miss the odd easy run here and there for various reasons (its tough to hit 6 days a week consistently when you have a job and family), so I'm not saying you need to hit every planned workout to make it worthwhile. But, to take a few examples of the key workout days:

Week 4 is 10 miles Sunday long, ~ 5 miles speed intervals on Tuesday, 6 miles MP on Thursday = 21 miles.
Week 8 is 14 miles Sunday long, ~ 5 miles speed intervals on Tuesday, 7 miles MP on Thursday = 26 miles.
Week 12 is 16 miles Sunday long, ~ 8 miles strength on Tuesday, 9 miles MP on Thursday = 33 miles.

Not a lot of miles there. And keep in mind that the plan calls for each alternating Sunday to be cut back in length, I've shown the longer weeks above.

I think if injury is your main concern then the Hanson plan isn't right for you. The Tuesday/Thursday sessions will hurt if you're really trying to run your best time. Each time I have done this there have been a few Thursday sessions where I simply couldn't hold MP and thought there was no way I would hit my goal on race day. But, with the gradual taper at the end it has always come together on race day for me.

Honestly, I think you are more likely to injure yourself if you skip the easy days and try to run the Tuesday/Thursday sessions on such low mileage.

For what it's worth, I ran a total of 703 miles over 18 weeks last time and missed at an easy day session in 9 of those weeks. My highest mileage week was 56 miles.

I'd suggest you consider the elliptical instead of the bike, put the resistance way down, don't use the arm things and "run" on it. Before there were zero-g treadmills there were elliptical trainers. The motion is much closer to running, zero impact and it is a more controlled environment in terms of intensity. Get a bottle of skratch mix, drink a bottle over an hour of going really easy. Look it up, Meb and many of the big dogs use this method.