I believe there's an ST poster that sells mirrored glasses that help with this. Here's a review! http://www.slowtwitch.com/...uct_review_3629.html

For me, I usually train just sitting up for exactly this reason. Too much risk of fresh potholes, dumb drivers, dogs, pedestrians, etc to be worth a 1km/h improvement in my ride's average speed.

In a race I'll keep my head low and look up every 2-3 seconds. In each glance, I try to positively verify that there's no potholes/competitors/debris/traffic in the next couple seconds, then put my head back down. If I can't be completely sure there's nothing fishy coming up, then I stay up to deal with it or until I've got a clear view of the road ahead.

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STAC Zero Trainer - Zero noise, zero tire contact, zero moving parts. Suffer in Silence starting fall 2016

Good idea to avoid TT on real roads - I'll just do it on the trainer!

Those mirrored glasses look really interesting - would be amazing if there were a modern, Google-glass like equivalent of that pair (especially at those prices)!

Edit: Come to think of it, maybe it's possible to hook up a GoPro/Virb device to a display (or transmit to a display) - if only their battery life were longer...

You uh, look up regularly.

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Run PR's: 18:05 - 36:58 - 1:22:59 - 3:07

Thanks for the hint with the glasses.

I just found this youtube video, so it may just be a matter of battery life now.

It would be nice to be able to go TT without having to look up!

Seriously

Learn to look "through the tops of your eyes", get frameless sunglasses. But pretty much look up

I just tilt my head up a bit compared to my position on a roadbike to counter the overall forward rotation. When wearing a tailed aero helmet this is actually necessary to make the tail flush with my back.
It might take some getting used to for the neck muscles in the beginning.

In this video (which i posted on here in a 2013 "critique my fit"-thread) I'm definitely looking up the road without compromising vision: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x53eZHUF4co
As you see at circa 0:45, looking down actually harms aerodynamics due to tail sticking up

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if you can read this
YOU'RE DRAFTING!

Cock you head slightly to the left or right so that one eye is a bit higher than the other - really. David K.

I train mostly on the trainer or on my road bike, to keep the wear and tear off my TT bike. When I race, I use a visor with my TT helmet... you could also use sunglasses that have no frame along the top edge. I find that makes a huge difference in your ability to see properly when you're riding in that position.

well no sh1t

maybe the OP wants to know how we deal with the neck strain?

OP - you take some glances up - then power away - it certainly helps in races where looking for road obstructions isn't so much of an issue as it is on regular roads.

On new roads i ride i get a strained neck from looking up more often than not.

good luck

I did move to a helmet with a visor instead of sunglasses for this reason, i find it easier to keep my head pointed down while my eyes point forward.

I know some sunglasses are better than others, but i couldnt be bothered, i enjoy a full view

Materials: $40
Time: 1-2 hours.

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Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.

Visibility and brakes are both far over rated. Neither make you go faster.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

I know some sunglasses are better than others, but i couldnt be bothered, i enjoy a full view

I can't be bothered with sunglasses or a visor. I'd soon not be able to see out of either due to sweat.

Thank you for the useful and thoughtful response.

BTW, how far do most of you look forward while on your TT bars?


2-3 bike lengths or more?

Searching around a bit on the web, I find some comments about improving core strength and neck stretching exercise to help out, but I'm a bit concerned that if you are doing it right, you still can't seem to see very far ahead - for going 20-25mph or more...

Suppose you see some dangerous debris on the road, wouldn't it be too late to avoid/brake going at those speeds? Even if you were extremely vigilant and agile, and not deterred by fatigue, could you react in time?

I guess my concern lies mostly in using TT bars while training. Perhaps I will simply train on the TT bars only while on the power trainer and during races. If I train outdoors, I will stay off the bars for safety. But the drawback would be the lack of handling practice on TT bars - not very optimal, either...

I guess my concern lies mostly in using TT bars while training. Perhaps I will simply train on the TT bars only while on the power trainer and during races. If I train outdoors, I will stay off the bars for safety. But the drawback would be the lack of handling practice on TT bars - not very optimal, either...

I avoid hammering in the TT bars unless traffic is light and I know the road.

Train in the position, and neck strain goes away. Road bike, tri-bike, commuting, always try to ride low.

Use rimless glasses or a visor. Glasses frames significantly increase how far you have to raise your head.

The alternative is to look down regularly. But unless you are on pristine roads, you are putting yourself in increased risk of flats, or crashing. An example was Redman Long Course on 26-SEP-15. Quite a few people complained about the rough and possible dangerous roads, and seeing quite a few people with flats. I agree, that IF you expect to look up every few seconds, that course was going to be a problem for you. But if you rode "heads up" the entire ride, it was fine.

I'm not passing judgement on anyone, but saying I choose to ride heads-up; always. I rode 2:19:55 on what I'd guess was ~200W (6'0" 150#), so I don't think there would be much to be saved by looking down. (I only have power on my indoor trainer; my 20 minute FTP is about 250W. From training rides on the trainer, I'll guess I race about ~200W.)

Position: https://jarandell.smugmug.com/...575123&k=d4wLJCD

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2015 USAT Long Course National Champion (M50-54)

Practice. I used to box so looking up through my eyelids isn't an issue.

I can see just fine here:

Train in the position, but if you can't get there, then your neck flexibility is your limiter in your position. Bring the front end up until you can. And "turtle" your head.

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

Thanks - those are great tips! Your photos are very helpful - from what I can tell, it looks like your level of look-up is what I'm trying to achieve. How many bike lengths ahead would you guesstimate that you can look ahead?

I thought I would do a sanity check. Suppose I am going 20mph on my TT bars. That's 29.33 ft/sec. Suppose an average bike has a length of 68 in.

That would mean in one second, the bike will travel about 5.2 bike lengths.


This implies that if I assuming a one second reaction time (actual reaction time may be worse due to fatigue, having to reach for brake levers, etc...), I must look at least 5.2 bike lengths ahead to even have a chance of avoiding trouble - I'm not even counting stopping distances yet.

Does anyone know what typical stopping distances are for a 20mph@150lb?

Great photo but it looks like you're looking down even more than Paul is (but it's hard to tell).

How many bike lengths ahead do you think you are looking?

Thanks for your tips - I will try raising the stack.

BTW, by turtling, do you mean pull the neck in and chin up?

Think chin forward and down, relax the upper back and let the spine sink downward between the shoulder blades.

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

I can see the horizon on a flat road. So for all practical purposes, I have no vision obstruction. I've ridden lower, I just don't think the risk/reward is worth it.

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2015 USAT Long Course National Champion (M50-54)

Wow - that's good to know - so I guess if I focus on bike fit, proper form, flexibility, and training, a safe posture is certainly possible - thx!