Personally I love it. Most people could afford a little extra mileage in their training, and you can't expect to be fresh for all of it if you're going to get in high volume.

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Tim Russell, Pro Triathlete

Instagram- @timbikerun

Time permitting I'd do a lot more of it. Unfortunately I've got a day job and I can't do this very often during the week.

I never ever run in training on fresh legs. I always run after some type of biking.

Just like in a race, one never runs on fresh legs, so why do in training?

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

So you can run harder maybe
So you are less likely to get injured maybe
So you don't have to not run on a day that you aren't biking maybe

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I can't think of a single pro triathlete I would go to for coaching advice...

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

When I see folks my age beating me running, and not hurt, I will then ask what they do. In the meantime, I am pretty proud of my 20 minute 5K run in the wind pushing my
grandkids in a double stroller yesterday at 57 years old. I did not do too bad pushing a double stoller in the 10K 5 minutes after the 5K race either. :o)

I take input from folks who have results to talk their walk.
\
\.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Then you will be getting input from people with big aerobic engines, more than coaching skill.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Fools errand, Jack. :)

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

I just never understand why some of you always have to say the only thing that can work for anyone is only what you think is right. If there was only one way to train, everyone would be doing it the same way.

I have never ever said anything I do would work for anyone else directly. But, I have been doing this sport long enough, reading long enough, talking to enough coaches and others, and have had pretty decent
results that I feel strongly I can at least offer to some that some things I do might be worth considering.

Nope, but of course you guys are always right.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I never said that. I'm not even disagreeing with LSanders on this, I have no idea. I was playing devil's advocate for you, because you asked a question. You asked why someone would do a certain thing. I gave three reasons a person might do such a thing.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Sanders is incorrect because he chooses to say "he never" runs on fresh legs. He totally discounts training protocols which would suggest quality is important. Therefore he is wrong by your own definition. And considering his years of experience, I would say talent trumps knowledge or experience.

And it's worth noting, this thread is entitled "Lionel Sanders Wisdom" I don't listen to anyone under the age of 35 as a general rule.

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

I knew there had to be some perk to aging up. Listen here buster....

Get off my effin' lawn?

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Founder of THE TRIATHLON COLLECTIVE (Closed Facebook Group). A SBR discussion group without the white noise/trolling!

:)

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Is it possible that both methods are effective for what one is attempting to accomplish? Running on fresh legs allows for more quality, distance, etc while running after biking puts the body through stresses that are not accomplished on fresh legs. Why does this thread remind me of when my two daughters were 6 & 8 ;)

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No mention of the swim though. Coincidence?

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Does anyone else smell that? Something reeks of hubris around here but Im not sure what...

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Professional Athlete: http://jordancheyne.wordpress.com/ http://www.strava.com/athletes/145340

Coaching Services:http://www.peakformcoaching.com/

Generally I am of the opinion of "always on the freshest legs possible"....in that vein, on a daily basis the order of my workouts would be run first, bike second, swim last (assuming I did all three). If I only do two, keep the same order and remove one sport from the sequence.

Having said that unlike the rest of us with small engines and relatively bad running biomechanics, when we run fresh the force we put to the pavement is not as high as Lionel, and when we are tired, our biomechanics are shittier than his. So when he runs on trashed legs, using a lower percentage of his engine, he is putting his legs through less pounding than if he ran fresh...and since his biomechanics are awesome, there is even a lower risk of injury....for the rest of us, even through running trashed means less force on the legs, it also comes with worse biomechanics, which is why we generally have to do our longer/harder running fresh. Lionel is a different animal though, and what works for him, or Crowie in his peak is not something that likely works for most of us.

I think all of us can agree that some brick runs are good off the bike...but general accepted view is short and not too hard, just to get used to the transition...other than that, run with the freshest legs possible.

I generally try not to emulate people with impulse control issues....

I've tried the run on tired legs idea in the past. It's an effiecnt method to make me strong and slow. I'm in your camp, run on fresh legs. Efficiency and speed improve, which (for me) translates to much faster run splits.

He's not winning a World Championship, at any distance, giving up time to Kienle on the swim.

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Thoughts on being an Urban Triathlete

- his avoidance of running fresh

- this thoughts that fresh running doesn't necessarily transfer to triathlon running


This does lead to a great deal of discussion and some controversy. The challenge for many new triathletes is that they are trying to do it all at the same time

- build up a base in THREE sports
- Get the necessary adaptations to yield performance gains
- Try and figure out what training get's the best results
- work race specific training into the program


If you really want to do this right, you need to take a longer view and start to break some or all of the above into chunks of time.


However, here's the reality of the challenge. If you are new to a sport, let's say running and you are a triathlete. You first need to build a sufficient base of running fitness over time. This will mean, a great deal of running on fresh legs and running on somewhat fatigued legs.


Now switching to triathlon specific training, keep in mind that in a triathlon race - you are NEVER running on fresh legs. You will ALWAYS have the cumulative fatigue of the swim and the bike in your body/legs by the time you get to the run.

In Lionel's case, he's done a great deal of fresh running over a number of years, but now as a triathlon specialist, he knows that, running of fatigued legs is what it's all about. In the macro sense - he's done a lot of both and most triathletes should do the same!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

If your training more than 15 hours per week and putting in quality bike efforts, how are you ever running on fresh legs? That's why I do quality runs very sparingly and only on days after a lighter training day. But on the flip side, I run 6 days a week, ride 6 days a week and swim 4-5 times a week.

It worked well for me. Mileage trumps quality. Quality is icing on the cake, but you need a cake first. However, if you volume is very low, then the opposite becomes true. You have some much time to recover, that you can do more quality to optimize training load.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

but you need a cake first

Boom!

It's amazing to me the numbers of triathletes who I see fiddling on the fringes of training worrying about, the icing, with training programs that seem to emphasize the icing. Bake, and make the cake first! The challenge is, this takes YEARS. The training is not terribly sexy, and just requires that you consistently put in a decent amount of time, over time!


That's why these cliche's such as "loving the journey", really start to kick in and matter.


To do this or any endurance sport really well . . . take a long time. There are no real short-cuts, despite what some high charging coach is telling you!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog