How much of a discrepancy and are you talking about cycling, running or both as far as orthotics in the shoe?

I don't have exact numbers yet. The left iliac crest is clearly higher than the right. It's usually not a problem except on the longer runs, which will cause soreness on the left (higher) iliac crest. Not a problem at all with cycling.

Well, since I make these every day of the week - very familiar.

But, why do you think you need a lift? Most all of us (if measured in one fashion or another) have a slight "functional" limb length discrepancy. But, it is unusual to have a true structural one. Now, if you had a serious tib-fib or femoral fracture, hip replacement, total knee, etc. - perhaps.

Most people tolerate up to 1/2" in a gym shoe or mens work shoe. Much after that and an external (shoe) lift is usually done (again, I'd assume extremely rare for people on this forum).

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

Hmmm, you have specific pain at the top of the Iliac crest? How is your flexibility?
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Born again Heathen
In Case of Keith Moon - Break This Glass
Ironman Certified Coach
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Could also be that your hips are "out of line" and you need an atlas adjustment.

I wouldn't be racing tri's anymore if it weren't for my NUCCA chiropractor in Newport Beach. Many other chiropractor couldn't help and made me even worse, but this technique is unbelievable.

read some information about the technique here:
http://www.nucca.org/a_patient_guide


Personally I think too many people blame leg length discrepancy when all they would need is an adjustment of the Atlas vertebrae. In those cases, getting a shim wouldn't solve the actual problem.

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�The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.� -Michelangelo

MoodBoost Drink : Mood Support + Energy.

I recently discovered a discrepancy of 15mm (.6”) from a broken femur when I was three. I have always had some back pain, and I now have knee pain in the longer leg on when I run. The pain has been getting worse so I had a x-ray that showed the discrepancy. I went to a Athletic orthopedic and he said that they normally don’t do anything if the discrepancy is less then 20mm (.73”).
I decided on my own to shim half of the distance (.25”) anyways because I’m to the point where I can’t run any more without knee pain. Do you make insoles for people who have a discrepancy less then 20mm? I just started with a heel lift but I’m planning on getting a full shoe insole. I also plan on using the Lewedge to shim on the bike.

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http://www.excellentengineering.net

I guess I would like to know by what method you've decided you have a LLD?? Almost everybody has a slight LLD if it was measured exactly and very few people have enough to cause any symptoms. Having someone tell you that your pelvis is tilted is very subjective, not very exact.. The best measure is actually and xray called a scanogram from hips to feet.

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Michael in Kansas
"Once you learn to quit, it becomes a habit"
"Its not whether you get knocked down, it's whether you get up" Lombardi

So you believe that manipulating your upper cervical spine (Upper neck) will cause your hips to go back into place and help with a leg length discrepancy? Seriously!!!

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Michael in Kansas
"Once you learn to quit, it becomes a habit"
"Its not whether you get knocked down, it's whether you get up" Lombardi

I think you have to distinguish between "physiological" and "anatomical" short legs.

Physiological short legs can be caused by pelvic torsion, a hypomobile sacro-iliac joint, muscle imbalances. Often these can be helped by chiropractic manipulation, stretching, etc.

Anatomical means that one leg is physically shorter than the other. You could be born this way or be caused by a fractured femur or tibia that shortened as it healed. This is common in spiral fractures of the tibia for example. In this case.

It really depends how much your leg descrepancy is. Is some cases a heel lift is suffecient. In big differences, custom shoes have to be purchased.

I actually have a mild leg length descrepancy that is related to a re-occuring sacro-iliac problem. I control it wth custom orthotics and chiro treatments.

http://www.quackwatch.org/...ics/chirostroke.html

Any thoughts?

I had been told by my long time massage therapist as well as my chiropractor that my left leg was slightly shorter than the other- never bothered me although looking back any issues I had were always on the left- shin splints, some knee pain etc. However, last year (this being my 3rd yr of training and really getting more aggressive with running- I am an ex-collegiate swimmer) I got heel pain in the left foot which then turned into a ruptured plantar fascia- during a race no less and 2 mos after I had a cortisone shot. Anyway, I have been gimping around for the past 6 months, got custom orthodics etc and still felt out of alignment. Not sure if there is an exact correlation to my leg imbalance or not but, I happened to stop in at a Good Feet Store in Colorado and got convinced that their arch support system would solve all my problems and more. Well, within one week I could do breast stroke kick again- hadn't been able to do that without knee pain for 6 months and had to do dolphin kick- not a big deal as I am not a breast stroker but, still a huge improvement in how I feel. And, although my heel pain is not necessarily cured yet, the rest of my body feels in alignment and I started added some volume to my running without any issues and feel great on the bike as well.

I swear. I visited a chiropractor because I always had a tight back. So he took x-rays and said that my msucles are tight because of imbalances. That my right shoulder was lower than my left, it was a 2mm difference. After 2months, my rt. side was down 25mm!!! I am not kidding you, you could see the difference when I was standing in front of you. I couldn't even see the lights in the office anymore as they irritated me. At times I couldn't even watch tv. My pelvis was off, too (with one leg being longer than the other). So that Chiropractor blamed it on one of my legs being longer than the other, went into that I will need shims, etc. He took xrays only to tell me that there is no difference. I was still in very much pain and couldn't function well at all.

So I went to this Dr. Cripe, a NUCCA chiropractor in Newport Beach. Awesome guy. Took 3d xrays of my upper cervical region. Did some calculations between my 1st and 2nd visit. I went back the 2nd time still 25mm lower on my left. Then he adjusted me and I was INSTANTLY equal. Pelvis was equal and shoulders were equal. I am not kidding you. The headache was instantly gone.

Now my atlas needs an adjustment every 6-8 weeks because of bad habits (sleeping on my stomach with head to the side).

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�The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.� -Michelangelo

MoodBoost Drink : Mood Support + Energy.

OK....Im getting really confused...you got arch supports for your feet, and they helped with your breaststroke??? Do you wear them in the water?? As far as the ruptured plantar fascia, you generally do recover from this injury but can develop flat feet due to it, so arch supports can help, but help your swimming???

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Michael in Kansas
"Once you learn to quit, it becomes a habit"
"Its not whether you get knocked down, it's whether you get up" Lombardi

The arch supports helped my knees which in turn allowed me to do breast stroke again- no, I don't wear them in the water, haha

[reply]I recently discovered a discrepancy of 15mm (.6”) from a broken femur when I was three. I have always had some back pain, and I now have knee pain in the longer leg on when I run. The pain has been getting worse so I had a x-ray that showed the discrepancy. I went to a Athletic orthopedic and he said that they normally don’t do anything if the discrepancy is less then 20mm (.73”).
I decided on my own to shim half of the distance (.25”) anyways because I’m to the point where I can’t run any more without knee pain. Do you make insoles for people who have a discrepancy less then 20mm? I just started with a heel lift but I’m planning on getting a full shoe insole. I also plan on using the Lewedge to shim on the bike.[/reply]

Do I make orthotics with a lift of less than 20mm on one side? Sure, if you are having symptoms from said discrepancy. No real reason not too if helps you back to long distance running! Again, just randomly measuring people on the street one would expect to find discrepancies around 1-2 cm, yet none of these people have any issues. This is, of course, greatly magnified in endurance athletes though (and the elderly) and even small muscle imbalances (or bike seat height adjustments) seem to cause big issues in some people.

The LeWedges are a good idea - just alternate stack them (one wedge medial, one wedge lateral) if you don't need any forefoot varus adjustment since you have a TRUE structural limb discrepancy.

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____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

It makes sense to use a lift for anatomic short legs that are symptomatic. Is it potentially harmful to use a lift with a physiological short leg? Might it make the body compensate more and make the physiological difference worse?

Scary isn't it!! Quackwatch is a very educational website, but, boy does it piss of "alternative" practitioners!!

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Michael in Kansas
"Once you learn to quit, it becomes a habit"
"Its not whether you get knocked down, it's whether you get up" Lombardi

"Quackwatch is a very educational website"

Not educational in the true sense as the conclusions are already made beforehand. Actually, it's anything but unbias.

Don't take Stephen Barrett or anything he says all that seriously. He's taken something like forty people to court and lost every single time and still keeps coming back for more public humiliation. Recently, one of his cases was dismissed when it was noted that some of his "qualifications" were bogus. He had even called himself a psychiatrist when in reality he had failed the qualifying exams. He also called himself a "medical legal expert" despite having absolutely no law training.

Barrett is somebody with a personal agenda. He's more of a "shock Doc" than anything else, trying hard to gain some sort of celebrity status.

I'm not sure of all the details because I've never taken the guy that seriously, but if you do a google search the details are avalable.

To answer this I'd say only go by symptoms. Lots of people have a short leg and are not symptomatic. For others it can effect their knee, hip or low back.

You can pick up cheap heel lifts and insoles at places like Wal-Mart. Why not purchase some there and first give them a try. No need to rush out and get the expensive custom jobs right away.

My right leg is slightly shorter than my left. Cannot remember the numbers. I have had my legs "measured" by a PT and an ortho. The discrepancy is below the knee -- meaning it really is bone length and not my hips being off, etc. At least that is what the doc told me. And, no, he is not the one who recommended orthodics or anything for that matter, he is a friend and was doing me a favor.

I have orthodics for my running shoes. I have a very small lift in the heel of my right shoe. For my cycling shoes, I have a couple extra shims under the cleat on my right shoe.

The only "issue" I have is that the hip pain I was having in my left hip is gone.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

how much of a discrepency constitutes a true structural leg length discrepency?

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____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

My LLD is due to a fused vertebrae (the lowest one, on the right side only).
It also pulls my hip back on the right side, as well.

I recently got custom orthotics w/a 7mm lift in the right one.

I have gotten pain from the bike (and uneven soreness/stiffness left vs right side)

Should I (a) use the ortho in my cycling shoe or (b) use a lift/shim of some sort?

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Are you calling me "deformed"? Thanks alot!!!

Ive been racing for 16 years and not once was I called deformed!!! Until today......this sucks!!

My right leg is a full 1" shorter then my left. I had issues for about 2 years after "the accident". I was hit by a car directing traffic as a cop. I now have no issues. I don't use any lifts, etc. Ive done 2 IM's without a problem.

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Paul