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Latex tire tips
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Hi Everyone,

I am looking at switching to latex tubes (Vittoria) for my Ironman race in Coeur d'Alene next week. Is there anything that I should be aware of? I am going to get them installed at the bike shop in town (free of charge) just to be safe. I am riding Felt TTR4 wheels with Continental 4000 2 tires. I will be bringing butyl spares for the race. Do I need sealant?

Thanks!
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Re: Latex tire tips [Darro020] [ In reply to ]
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Darro020 wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I am looking at switching to latex tubes (Vittoria) for my Ironman race in Coeur d'Alene next week. Is there anything that I should be aware of? I am going to get them installed at the bike shop in town (free of charge) just to be safe. I am riding Felt TTR4 wheels with Continental 4000 2 tires. I will be bringing butyl spares for the race. Do I need sealant?

Thanks!

Yes, you should plan on a pumping up on race morning as Latex leak quite a few psi over night.


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Re: Latex tire tips [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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I am also a little concerned about the amount of downhills and braking. The few articles that I've read warn about high temperatures from constant braking causing the latex to pop. The high temp right now is supposed to be around 89 degrees but there is a lot of uphill/downhills on the course. I am a pretty competent rider but should I be concerned?

Also thanks for the tip of inflating them the morning of!
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Re: Latex tire tips [Darro020] [ In reply to ]
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Darro020 wrote:
I am also a little concerned about the amount of downhills and braking. The few articles that I've read warn about high temperatures from constant braking causing the latex to pop. The high temp right now is supposed to be around 89 degrees but there is a lot of uphill/downhills on the course. I am a pretty competent rider but should I be concerned?

Also thanks for the tip of inflating them the morning of!

There is very little braking on the CDA course. As far as hard conditions go there are far harder conditions that latex has been thru and has survived just fine. Regardless, I sense some nervous hesitation on your part. My big thing for racing is confidence. Confidence is king and if you aren't confident in your equipment you will second guess yourself and add more stress and that isn't good. Ask yourself why you are making the switch to latex at this particular point in time and whether it is worth it.


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Re: Latex tire tips [Darro020] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not sure latex tubes would be more prone to popping from temperature than butyl or any other kind. I, for one, use latex tubes all the time and have never had one pop due to temperature.

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers
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Re: Latex tire tips [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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I'm racing this weekend and was going to try latex as well. I fitted them and rode a bit, seemed pretty much the same but I just wasn't familiar enough with them. Thus, decided against using them. Just don't want another thing to worry about. Maybe next time!
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Re: Latex tire tips [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Thomas Gerlach wrote:
Regardless, I sense some nervous hesitation on your part. My big thing for racing is confidence. Confidence is king and if you aren't confident in your equipment you will second guess yourself and add more stress and that isn't good. Ask yourself why you are making the switch to latex at this particular point in time and whether it is worth it.

I would like to add here, that I would avoid changing something a week before a race, I would only do that if it is absolutely necessary. In your case, I would have started running the latex a month ago. Just imagine the tire is not good or poorly installed. You notice that within a month, but probably not in the few miles you're going to test it with now.
So if you ask me, I would not touch the bike as it is now.
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Re: Latex tire tips [jens] [ In reply to ]
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jens wrote:

I'm not sure latex tubes would be more prone to popping from temperature than butyl or any other kind. I, for one, use latex tubes all the time and have never had one pop due to temperature.

This.

I have never seen a latex tube melted from braking yet.
I have never seen ANY tube melted from braking yet.
I HAVE seen tubular tyres wih valve stems ripped out from the tyre rotating because the glue melred.
I have seen both rubber and latex tubes exploded from improper fitting.

Latex tubes exploding in the real world from getting melted from braking is simply a myth perpetuated by people who refuse to accept that they are inept at properly fitting a tyre and tube.
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Re: Latex tire tips [Darro020] [ In reply to ]
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Just ordered some as well. But my race is 9 weeks out and will start all rides with them next week.

From what I've read, the only concerns are very long decent with constant braking. And it sounds like that is not so scientifically proven.

Slight hijack; I pump up before every ride, so the pressure loss doesn't worry me, but was wondering about sealant for flat protection. If I'm getting ~2 watts per tire savings by switching, how does sealant affect that?
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Re: Latex tire tips [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]
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lyrrad wrote:
Latex tubes exploding in the real world from getting melted from braking is simply a myth perpetuated by people who refuse to accept that they are inept at properly fitting a tyre and tube.

Can we put this somewhere on ST where everyone can see this..... like a banner at the top?

Shoot, I might just put it in my signature and quote you.

Truer words have never been spoken.

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Re: Latex tire tips [Darro020] [ In reply to ]
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I wouldn't make the change a week before a race like that. Latex tubes are nice and all but not done right can cause problems too. My old bike shop I rode for and had work on my bike weren't experienced at installing latex tubes, I was better off doing them myself. It just isn't something they deal with much if at all. There are some good tips on this forum for installing and running them without issue.

A few things I picked up...

- baby powder the tube
- run sealant in them
- Silca rim tape on wheel

Otherwise they're like any tube, careful installing it, ensure it isn't under the bead of the tire, etc.
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Re: Latex tire tips [Darro020] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
switching to latex tubes (Vittoria) for my Ironman race in Coeur d'Alene next week

Don't do it. You need more experience with them before you run them on race day. There are A LOT of factors, especially the inside of your wheels that come into play, and IMO, you don't want to risk that on race day.
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Re: Latex tire tips [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]
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longtrousers wrote:
Thomas Gerlach wrote:
Regardless, I sense some nervous hesitation on your part. My big thing for racing is confidence. Confidence is king and if you aren't confident in your equipment you will second guess yourself and add more stress and that isn't good. Ask yourself why you are making the switch to latex at this particular point in time and whether it is worth it.


I would like to add here, that I would avoid changing something a week before a race, I would only do that if it is absolutely necessary. In your case, I would have started running the latex a month ago. Just imagine the tire is not good or poorly installed. You notice that within a month, but probably not in the few miles you're going to test it with now.
So if you ask me, I would not touch the bike as it is now.

One thing athletes have to be aware of is wear of tires and the negative effects on aerodynamics. Installing a month out may be appropriate the first time, but if you want to be the fastest version of yourself, one has to take some accountability in being diligent with race tires, tubes, chains, pulleys, even chainrings, and cassettes in some instance and learning to put them on shortly before a race.


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Re: Latex tire tips [Darro020] [ In reply to ]
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Put the latex tubes in yourself about five times.

You don't need talcum powder.
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Re: Latex tire tips [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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This. I freaked out about it and then just decided to try it. They are not as hard to install as people make them. It was really easy. I used the tubeless tape and no talcum or anything went on like a normal tube no issues.

2019 T-Rex Tri Series
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Re: Latex tire tips [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Thomas Gerlach wrote:
If you want to be the fastest version of yourself, one has to take some accountability in being diligent with race tires, tubes, chains, pulleys, even chainrings, and cassettes in some instance and learning to put them on shortly before a race.
So... this is a genuine question, not meant to be annoying. Do you have a sense of the percent improvement you can gain from swapping out tires, tubes, chains, pulleys, chainrings, and cassettes for a race? Assume that the bike is in general very good working order overall, and that the components are many hundreds of miles away from EoL.

The reason I ask is that I do risk analysis and risk management professionally. Through that, I have many years of experience observing someone's small, last-minute change for a marginal gain result in far worse consequences. I also have many thousands of miles bike riding in my youth and now since I have resumed the sport, and the vast majority of mechanical failures I experienced or friends experienced were the result of a recent change or routine maintenance. Any change increases probability of a failure in the short-term. You can be an expert and extra careful and quadruple-check, but statistically, a change increases a failure probability.

So, the key questions are: What are the incremental performance gains by swapping out components? And, are those gains worth the risk of a mechanical failure that could cost far more in lost time?

For example, if you told me that racing on brand new tires and tubes and some other bits would give me 5%, that is a slam dunk. If the gain was 1%, then I would consider it, and probably do it with great care. If 0.1%, then I would pass.
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Re: Latex tire tips [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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A new chain and cluster with a new quick link is far less likely to fail than an old chain, cluster and quicklink.
A new aero front tyre is not going to flat as easy as an old worn and already hacked tyre.

Cars being serviced do not make them more likely to crash, bikes are no different.
Especially if you are doing it yourself and have time to double check everything and test ride it.

My friends car missed a service and broke a timing belt today causing $7000 damage.
Servicing would have prevented this.

Just because it ain't broke doesn't mean it is not just about to.
New drivetrains feel palpably more efficient.
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Re: Latex tire tips [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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Just changing tires and tubes could save you a couple minutes.
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Re: Latex tire tips [Darro020] [ In reply to ]
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Darro020 wrote:
I am also a little concerned about the amount of downhills and braking. The few articles that I've read warn about high temperatures from constant braking causing the latex to pop. The high temp right now is supposed to be around 89 degrees but there is a lot of uphill/downhills on the course. I am a pretty competent rider but should I be concerned?

Also thanks for the tip of inflating them the morning of!

Having switched to latex 2 years ago, I have not have not noticed any difference from butyl other than they need to be inflated in the morning of the race and they are much more supple during the ride. Installation is the same with the added step of the sealant.

As for braking at CDA, it should be kept to a minimum unless you are in the M 35-39 age group. Then I would advise much caution on the descents as well as some gatorskins to be on the safe side. The hills are long, but they are not that steep (6% at most) so there are no crazy downhill sections.

Oui, mais pas de femme toute de suite (yes, but I am not ready for a woman straight away) -Stephen Roche's reply when asked whether he was okay after collapsing at the finish in the La Plagne stage of the 1987 Tour
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Re: Latex tire tips [Darro020] [ In reply to ]
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It takes a lot of rides on latex to learn how much air they lose, how to install or change them, and basically how to live with them. Like others are saying, definitely don't use them in an important race if you haven't been riding on them for a while. It's not that they are massively different, just different enough to really screw up your day because you'll do something you didn't know you shouldn't do.

For example, you can't inflate latex tubes with CO2. That molecule is just small enough to leak through latex like mad. You'll have another flat tire in about 2 minutes. If you ride latex, you still need butyl as your spare.

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Re: Latex tire tips [Vincible] [ In reply to ]
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Vincible wrote:
As for braking at CDA, it should be kept to a minimum unless you are in the M 35-39 age group. Then I would advise much caution on the descents as well as some gatorskins to be on the safe side.
Oh you teasing scamp.


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Re: Latex tire tips [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond wrote:
Put the latex tubes in yourself about five times.

You don't need talcum powder.
This. Practice.

BTW I would not switch to latex a few days before a race, and certainly not rely on a bike shop to do it for me. This kind of change should be done at least a week out minimum, and you need to know how to do it yourself. You need a few training rides ahead of the race to find out pinch flats, and take the time to practice replacing the tubes.
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Re: Latex tire tips [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond wrote:
Just changing tires and tubes could save you a couple minutes.
Going from a set of GP4K2 tires and latex tubes with a couple thousand miles to a brand new set of same would save 2 minutes in 112 miles?
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Re: Latex tire tips [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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I am going to guess that the OP is not currently using Continental GP 4000S II tires and latex tubes.

Switching to them now could save a couple minutes.
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Re: Latex tire tips [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond wrote:
I am going to guess that the OP is not currently using Continental GP 4000S II tires and latex tubes.

Switching to them now could save a couple minutes.

Or lose him 5 minutes while he's repairing a pinch flat.....
Last edited by: Dilbert: Aug 18, 17 10:20
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