It isn't on ESPN.com

---

infinIT Nutrition
Custom Blended Nutrition Solutions
http://www.infinITNutrition.com

A little blurb alongside the main story:

"Cycling analyst John Eustice thinks Floyd Landis' testosterone test could be a false positive. Landis' testosterone levels were low; just the ratio was off. Landis' cortisone shots or beer drinking could affect that, Eustice said on The Dan Patrick Show."

T

---

"The mind can calculate, but the spirit yearns, and the heart knows what the heart knows."

what does that mean exactly then? his tests were low? i tought it was high which triggered all this? im obviously confused can you explain?

We've been chatting about this throughout the morning.

Is this to suggest that his exertion on Thursday (the epic breakaway day) and his problem on Wednesday (the day he got dropped from the lead group) may have induced a physiological response that contributed to an elevated testosterone level, and a subseuently positive "A" sample?

Say it is so. I want to believe.

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

It's in the box right next to the article about him.

"Cycling analyst John Eustice thinks Floyd Landis' testosterone test could be a false positive. Landis' testosterone levels were low; just the ratio was off. Landis' cortisone shots or beer drinking could affect that, Eustice said on The Dan Patrick Show."

Me too. I really hope that his B sample is negative.

well, he can always give some hair to show he is innocent

[reply]what does that mean exactly then? his tests were low? i tought it was high which triggered all this? im obviously confused can you explain?[/reply]

His testosterone level was low. If his epi level was about 4 times lower than normal, then the ratio of test to epitest would be high, but that doesn't mean he has a lot of test in his system

I'm not defending Floyd, nor am I in the camp that is condemning him. I'm with you, Tom - I want so badly to believe...

But, if this is a false positive, I hope to God that each and every media outlet that has Floyd's picture and headline on their website's front page right now invests the same amount of effort and attention to the news that he's not dirty...

---

__________________________________________________
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell

is John Eustice a doping specialist? or a cycling analyst a la Bob Roll??

I hope that guy knows more about testosterone tests than he does about TdF riders. Heard a segment from him before the last TT and he said Floyd's biggest rival were "Perry - air - oh" and "Sass - ter".

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

The testoserone threshold to flunk the PED test is 4 x 1, with an ordinary person being 1 x 1... that's a pretty damn huge gap to overcome via beer/bonk/otherwise.

The best hope for Faith-based Floyd Believers that I can see is that the test was conducted by doctors, which kill 100,000 Americans via medical mistakes every year (yes, I know these aren't American doctors, but I assume U.S. doctors are at least as good as EU/etc.). But, if the B sample is also possible, forget about it -- end of story.

Absolutely. It is hard to erase the gathering cloud. Retractions on page 9 don't get it.

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

[reply]is John Eustice a doping specialist? or a cycling analyst a la Bob Roll??[/reply]

Don't know. Hence my suggestion to hang tight till the real facts come in. Either way, Landis is hosed.

Here is what I find most sad. Our first response (and I use our loosley) is the assumption of guilt.

What has become of our grand, majestic sport?

---

"....No longer easy on the eyes but these wrinkles masterfully dusguise the youthful boy below."~Death Cab for Cutie

http://www.a1cyclery.com

Excellent question.

I'm enough of a newbie to the international cycling realm to not know who Eustice is.

But, I'm sure Bobke knows enough about the facts surrounding testing to voice a well-founded opinion on the matter. I'm assuming Eustice does too. He might not be able to present a paper on the chemistry behind it, but he likely knows the facts well.

---

__________________________________________________
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell

It just dosen't make since? Also, why not pull his other samples to compare? If he is clean on Stage 16 & 18 then maybe that help his position?

Dave in VA

 
If what Eustice says is true, wouldn't Landis' B sample be positive for the same reason?

[reply][.reply]is John Eustice a doping specialist? or a cycling analyst a la Bob Roll??[./reply]

Don't know. Hence my suggestion to hang tight till the real facts come in. Either way, Landis is hosed.[/reply]

From a bio:
"In cycling, the 46 year old Eustice was the first-ever USPRO Champion in 1982. Originally from Ivyland, Pennsylvania, Eustice competed in the Giro d'Italia, Vuelta a Espana and World Cycling Championships. When he's not at the Tour de France, the father of two runs his sports event promotion company Sparta, organizers of the Housatonic Valley Classic and the Univest Grand Prix."

He has also done a lot of commentating.

---

______________________________________________________

Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

Knowing that alcohol has negative effects for athletes, can we really believe that he had a beer during the most important race series of his life?

[reply]The testoserone threshold to flunk the PED test is 4 x 1, with an ordinary person being 1 x 1... that's a pretty damn huge gap to overcome via beer/bonk/otherwise.

The best hope for Faith-based Floyd Believers that I can see is that the test was conducted by doctors, which kill 100,000 Americans via medical mistakes every year (yes, I know these aren't American doctors, but I assume U.S. doctors are at least as good as EU/etc.). But, if the B sample is also possible, forget about it -- end of story.[/reply]


No thats a big gap from average joe(1:1) but I believe that most elite athletes all have ratios higher than 1:1 but I don't know for sure and I haven't a clue what the numbers are.(sure someone out there will come back yes or no I'm no expert)

And if it's true his levels were actually low just the ratio was high then theres more to this story to come I would think...

I think, based on what I've read, that they only tested after Stage 17. Of course, they may take samples after each stage...I don't know.

We pop pills to go to sleep, drink coffee to wake up, have a beer to make others more amusing, take our vitamin Ibuprofen to ease our suffering, and ingest various other chemical sundries for our other perceived discomforts.

And (biggest of all) we channel our spare cash to support athletic heroes as they battle it out on TV to entertain us. Combine the financial incentives with the drug culture we live in and -- wala! -- Le Tour DAY France!

Other sports have the same problem -- track/field, soccer, football, baseball... either super-strict unified testing (which would require all kinds of privacy waivers, injected microchips, etc.), amateurization or legalization is the answer.

what does that mean exactly then? his tests were low? i tought it was high which triggered all this? im obviously confused can you explain?


They actually do not just test for testerone level alone but rather they look at a ratio between the level of testoterone and another hormone in an effort to detect artifical boosting of the level of testosterone. I assume they used data from studies of undoped people to come up with a norm. If the ratio is greater then 4:1, it is deemed a positive for artifically increased testosterone but the absolute level of testonerone alone is not the trigger for a positive. [note - until recently the magic ratio for a "postitive" was 6:1 so this is obviously not as exact a science as the doping authorities would like us to believe.]

So, since there are 2 ways to increase a ratio - increase one number OR decrease the other, it could be that his testoterone tested "high" because the other hormone was abnormally low. Whether it is medically possible for this to occur naturally I don't know.