Also you have to hand it to Tim Don in second. Don was racing Island house tri a few weeks ago and made the trek across to China over 13 time zones. If you guys recall, Amberger was trying to get more US base pros to come over to race at 70.3 WC's this Sep on a few posts on ST.

Big congrats to Josh!!! I will say that this is probably the best feature to having a more fair race. Kuddos for closing down two lanes in the most populated country in the world. From my eyes on paper this is one of the more far and realistic race splits I have seen.

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I have a couple of athletes racing there (both won their Age group btw #humblebrag) .

They both said the city looks like it could be as crowded as HK or Sinapore but that there is < half the people around. I'm sure that makes it easier to close roads, and, well, China.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
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it appears that the chase group did not have a chance to bunch together and get a free tow up to Amberger (and yes, there was less horsepower in the chase group than at 70.3 WC). //

Great race by Josh, but there is so much wrong with your statement here. Take a look at the field here and then take a look at the WC field, less horsepower is a understatement that, well just not a word for it. And there is no free ride when you are in a group that is riding 12m apart, you should know that by now. And even if some group had formed of all the guys chasing, they were not going to catch him for 2 reasons. First is that he is just the fastest rider there, and secondly this free ride that does not exist would not have been nearly enough for that group of guys to outride him. (not saying no advantage, but a few watts is about as opposite of a free ride as you can get)


In the WC the guys on the front got caught by stronger riders, with some cling ons who later blew up because they overbiked, just like in Hawaii. Also in the WC race, everyone is shaved and tapered, not like some normal race you show up to every weekend, so one would expect to see everyone on top form and going for it.


And lastly it is a ton easier to watch guys riding when there are virtually no groups to monitor. Marshals will of course become more effective if their job is 10 times easier. A race with no one riding in a group or together will always be the most fair, but that is not to say a stacked field with everyone on their game is also not a fair race..

Thanks for the love. It was definitely a really hard fought race. Guys know how I race, & they know how Don races. Two totally different tactics, but always makes for an exciting race should there be no 'interruptions', and we're both allowed to do our thing.

This was a really good event. The swim for instance was actaully challenging. There is a 5m swing in high-low tides (read epic tide changes for non-metric folk), so they timed the swim that the pros went off close to high tide with a strong current, and most AG, particulary the slower AG'ers got the slack ebb tide. I swam 26 mins, 5 mins slower than 70.3 Worlds. The bike course was pretty straight forward though rather hilly in a light sense. Kind of like Coeur d'Alene but not as steep inclines. Epic paved asphalt, as always in China, and wide roads. The run was gruelling, no shade, a relentless shuffle to the finish line.

In a credit to the Chinese, this race was livestream entirely on 4 TV chanells. For chopper treatment the entire race. These guys are serious. Why IronmanLive didn't piggy back it... I don't know. Would have been cool.

Unrelated to the race, but not so sure about prior pompous remarks about 12m draft zones. It's pretty clear there is a big advantage to be had even at this distance. This is not anecdotal. Don't argue. Accept. Move on.

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http://www.josh-amberger.com/

Fantastic win. Must have been tough to keep the hammer down for the entire 4 hours racing totally solo all day. I agree on the epic smooth pavement in China and also pretty cool that they featured you guys or live TV. Judging from the swim times, it really looked slow. I assume this was also a no wetsuit swim for everyone. I assume by now there is some talk of a 70.3 World's in China at some point in the future? I know people will ask but I assume that air quality was pretty decent ? Finally one more question: With the number of international racers did they have instructions in several languages?

Unrelated to the race, what is next on your racing agenda for the Southern Hemisphere summer? Do you take a break now or you took one earlier and you're in a full blown build for Aussie season?

Congrats on the podium wins of your guys! As for closing the road, if the government supports what you are doing, then anything will happen in China. Having the chairman of Dalian Wanda backing all this is probably slightly helpful!

Josh,

Do you ever post power files?

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Not wanting to take anything away from Josh Amberger, but what a performance by that Chinese dude who took the overall AG race aged somewhere 50-54. Assuming he will take the Kona slot, he will be one to watch out for - 12 mins faster than Sarah Piampiano today, who went 9:22 just a few weeks ago in Kona.

Sometimes I do, but I haven't done it for a while. This one in interesting because of the two lap course. My conditioning this time of year is not good, I've been racing since Dubai 70.3 in Janurary and running in fumes. I really suffered on the second lap of the bike, but you wouldn't know this if you based your assumption on lap splits. My second lap was maginally slower by a matter of seconds, but the power on the 2nd lap dropped 15-18w off the top of my head without having looked at the file. This is from the 45km of constant slipstreaming passing AG racers the entire second lap.

I know from the casual reading I've done on this forum that you're perhaps a bit of skeptic. Anything in particular you would like to see in my file?

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http://www.josh-amberger.com/

The Chinese athletes certainly were impressive, it seems there's some talent here for sure. I met this fast guy in particular at the expo, as we are both Felt athletes. The people are nuts for tri here, and the business of it all seems good too. Maserati as one of the sponsors? Come on, where's my leased car for a year?? Haha.

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http://www.josh-amberger.com/

That's the way I've been racing for a long time. Of course, you don't hear my name in the news each race, so let's say it doesn't work to the effect it did in Xiamen every time! It's a long slog at the front, but I'm a front runner and I must always play to my strengths.

Xiamen was a great host city, and from what I've seen of China, definitely the cleanest place. That being said, the air today is not good. Yesterday it was fair but still noticiable during the race, it felt at points like I was racing at alitude. I think it's all subject to wind direction in China, and the past two days has seen very little wind at all.

Everything was clearly signed, and briefed in Chinese and Engligh. The course was fully closed and barricaded the entire way, with funnilly enough thousands of spectators lining a fair portion of the course. It was a very very professional production.

Immediate plans for now are to get home and start the off-season! I normally go camping each year, and I'm book with Ash to head off on Thursday to Moreton Island for a week and disconnect. I make a video of the trips each year
https://vimeo.com/145981461
https://vimeo.com/115429438

In terms of racing plans, I'll probably sgtart back again with Dubai 70.3 early in 2017. Then go full tilt for IMSA.

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http://www.josh-amberger.com/

Hey Josh - Thanks much for chiming in here!!! Swimming Q for you since you are one the fastest tri swimmers: what kind of time could you do for say a 1500 scm, e.g. in a 25-m pool say like the Wed before an IM on Sat/Sun??? I'm gonna guesstimate 16:00-16:30-ish??? I ask b/c one coach on here swears he has athletes who only go 18:00 but b/c they're good at drafting they can swim 48 in an IM swim, which I am skeptical of. If the swim is really 2.4 miles or 3860 m, with no current assist, then you'd need to average 1:14.6/100 m, in OW with no rest on the turns. I don't see how an 18:00 1500 scm swimmer could pull this off since he/she is only averaging 1:12 for 1500 scm, even if he/she were wearing a wettie. Your thoughts???

Cheers,

Eric

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

It is a much longer discussion than I am prepared to get into at the moment. In short, I think we need to study the effects of changes in rider .cDa across different races and scenarios. I do think with the help of a company like Best Bike Split that we could see drastic .cDA changes from race to race when it should be relatively constant. Without the data we don't get to see it.

Looking back just now at 70.3 Worlds, we have 0, count that 0, bike files posted on Strava. That blows me away that nobody was willing to publish that race. We as pros knows that the data is basically meaningless, but it would seem it would be great publicity for athletes so it surprises me that no data is available.

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There is plenty of publicly available data to do just that, even from Josh (here and here, for a couple examples). At 65 kg, he's stronger on the hillier courses, even though he'll not ever make Lionel watts. I'm too lazy to run his shit through BBS, but I suspect he's fairly aero as well, and he seems disciplined with respect to his position. The secret to his cycling prowess is largely power to weight, and his achilles heal historically has been that he doesn't pace himself -- though he seems to be maturing as an athlete in doing just that. Good for him.

All that said, I do dislike when pros won't release data or release data inconsistently. I appreciate the rappstar school of open data and think Chris Lieto is a bit of a douche nozzle for guarding his data for his entire career, as if there's some secret. Because: there isn't. Watts/CdA and Watts/kg. Josh seems to be transitioning to a Lieto position on this issue, which is a shame, but it's his data and he can do with it what he wants. I don't think there's much 'publicity' in it for the guy one way or another.



And we as amateurs know that data is meaningful and those who say or think otherwise might be common morons.

Was the last bit supposed to be in pink? The single data point is meaningless without context, and really unless you were there you can't obtain the context. Thanks for the Garmin links, but what I am really looking for gobs and gobs of data that we can look at across multiple races, draw realistic .cDa conclusions and then look for outliers and why those outliers may exist. I definitely have an agenda here, but not the drive, passion, and time to properly explain it it at the current time.

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[quote Thomas Gerlach
Looking back just now at 70.3 Worlds, we have 0, count that 0, bike files posted on Strava. That blows me away that nobody was willing to publish that race.[/quote]
Guess I don't count in the TG World............... ;)

You can always find my power files Thomas, nothing to hide from my end.

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

It was the same in Hefei as well. They are supposed to be doing NBC Sports airings of the races as well. As soon as I hear the dates I will let you guys know. They have a ton of footage so should be a good broadcast. As Josh mentioned, not sure why they haven't piggy backed the live CCTV footage onto IM Live, maybe a lack of commentator resources or the general thought that there would be a lack of interest from the "general" spectators of IM races?

As Josh pointed out with the currents, this was the case. Only the PROS were non wetsuit, everyone else had the option. This was the most time I have lost in a swim in the last 2 years. I came out with the same guys I came out with in Hefei, but of course the tough swim hurt us weak swimmers even more.

I haven't heard anything along those lines. My thought would be that we would see 70.3 Asia Pacific Champs there as early as 2017 (as I haven't seen a race announced yet for that), and if not '17, I would assume '18. I would think 70.3 Worlds could be a possibility for 2019, think that is the next time they are in Asia Pacific?

Like Josh said the 2 days leading up to the events I thought it was actually really good. Then on race day it was the worst I had seen it. I had some breathing issues post race, just when taking super deep breaths, but cannot say for sure that it was directly related to the air quality.

I would assume the Athlete Guide on the website would be the best source as it should show what briefings they had. The pro briefing was English only. Paul Kaye had a translator with him on race day and at the awards banquet. So anything on stage that was said in English was translated.

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

Guess I don't count in the TG World............... ;)

You can always find my power files Thomas, nothing to hide from my end.[/quote]
Brad, sorry, yes, I guess your is in there. I did my cursory search via the WC segment. Your bike split didn't bubble to the surface because of all those quick quick quick age-group times, but thank you. That 278 watts for a ~2:17 surely is unaided.

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Yes, unaided, self destructing blow up. FlyBy is always interesting to use if multiple people actually upload their files. That is another good way to see who uploaded at least a .GPX file.

Think there are a few posted from Xiamen if you wanted to look through that. Think Metzler posted, who was in the group, and I believe Dougal posted who had the 2nd fastest split, and then maybe Matt Lieto did as well?

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
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Brad thanks for sharing all this info.

To Josh, at ~65 kilos, your bike splits on flatter courses are pretty impressive. I am sure many of us would love to see your file from Xiamen given that it was an ITT. Again, congrats on your race and have a nice short break before your build to IM South Africa. Is that your first IM? Why did you opt to fly halfway around the world from Australia to South Africa when there are IM's closer to home? Hopefully they have whitecaps in the Indian Ocean so you can get a nice lead out of the water. Your aeroness should be a good advantage in the perpetually windy Port Elizabeth. It's basically on the transition point between warm Indian Ocean water and freezing South Atlantic water, so always seems to have a solid wind.

 
I'm sorry, what exactly are you saying? Are you suggesting you need to see my data to believe that my race was 'pure'?

I've posted a ton of data in the past. Both in training and from races. In particular from many of my other 'ITT' wins. I would think that after 8x 70.3 wins since 2012 that my performances to my peers would be believable. I haven't posted data from many of my races this year simply because it's not a priority, and I feel I have proven myself as a competitor and no longer need to make statements like 'look at my numbers, I'm awesome AF'. Which is basically only 1 of two reasons why I feel anyone would post data. The other reason is basically to say, here's my numbers, it's arbitrary proof everyone cheated. Some people might see posting data as a measure of 'transperency', but I just don't share the same priorities.

My priority after races is as such;
-Connecting with my family and friends who've likely given up half their day following shitty ittermitent or innacurate splits
-Immediate post-race commitments, presentations, socialising with other athletes etc.
-Probably throwing back a few beers then getting some sleep
-Packing my bike and getting out of town, more than likely getting on a long haul flight
-Writing emails and updating sponsors, finding race pictures, gaining permission to use race pictures, hopefully drafting invoices if it was a successful race
-Adapting back to training at home or trying to find my bearings in a new locale, or maybe even getting ready for another race in a few days time

I used to write a lot of blogs, which was where most of my data was posted. Naturally over the years this has tapered off as my focus has moved more into striving for performance, and less on talking about such performances. Sometimes I don't even look at my race data post-race. For me, it's valuable most in the moment of racing. That is my focus on using power. If you don't like this, then I'm sorry, but trying to prove my performance to a forum hack is not really on my immediate to-do list post race. And I didn't post my Worlds data to Strava because I don't have a Strava.

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http://www.josh-amberger.com/

And here I thought we would get to celebrate an ITT win!!! Sorry it went that way. I think the interest in seeing your data comes from being able to see what it takes to put down a 2:03 when you have no competitors to benefit from. And given your size the 2:03 is double impressive. It's not like you. are built like Starky or have levers like Marino, Lieto or Faris!

Yeah so this strikes me as total bullshit and completely disingenuous. Posting data is just not a priority for you, as if it is some time consuming thing. It isn't. It takes literally less than a minute. Or it would take a handful of seconds to just say, like Jordan and Brad and Thomas do, that your AP was x and your NP was y. The reason you might consider posting data is exactly the reason we are asking for that data here -- not to say, I'm awesome or everyone cheated. Well, Thomas is asking you because he wants to push his bizarre agenda that the motos are helping every leading athlete escape the chase; the rest of us are asking because we value data and what it teaches us about the sport and the athletes who are at the top of it. If you have time to come on here and post -- which is great, by the way, and really nice for those of us who are slow and trying to become less so -- then you have time to share a single link should you want to further connect with those slow hacks who are the same people indirectly funding your and Ashley's Felt sponsorship. Unless you don't want to, in which case you can simply tell us that you don't want to, and maybe even note why, when we ask. That's just simple respect and genuineness towards those who respect you as an athlete.