Thank you for your contribution. You seem like a dead set good bloke.

For an Aussie ;-)

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I ride:
Cervelo - P-Series/R3
GT - Sensor Carbon Expert

Supporters - Flo Cycling, Mount Bikes

nothing wrong with us aussies sheep boy ;)

I enjoyed watching josh out the front at worlds hammer along. Great position, looked very aero, commentators kept going on about how he kept looking down and how their are dangers if there is something out of your line of sight. Pfffft.....commentators!

Thanks for the words. You obviously must have been taking a piss when I had my head down and hit the pothole??? Swerved to the other side of the road, almost hit the camera bike!

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http://www.josh-amberger.com/

haha didn't see that bit nope...must have been what they were going on about though

Congratulations on your great win and for coming on here commenting on it. I also thought your 70.3 WC performance was gutsy, and made for great racing even though I imagine you would've hoped for an even higher placing (allthough - 12th in 70.3 WC isn't all bad hey?).

As an aside - or in this thread not-so-much-aside - the discussions on power-numers and analasys-paralysis kinda peaks my interest (probably a side-effect of an office job! ;p). Sorry if I'm beating a dead-horse, but here it goes:

First its seems (atleast to me) that the discussion previously in the thread mixes toghether (i) the athletes integrity/willingness to abide strictly by the rules, and (ii) the more objective question on what factors other than the athletes watts that affect the outcome of the race. In my opinion there is no reason to question Josh's (or any other athlete for that sake) integrity just because there can be found an anomaly in speed vs power. This just goes to prove that there were outside factors affecting speed (which will always be the case, unless we move the races to a velodrome doing ITT-starts..). Sure, it's critical that all racers (especially pros) abide by the rules, but my opinion is that this asessment needs to be made on the course by the refs, not by someone else in hindsight, analysing power-files.

Second, what interests me in this discussion, is what factors affect races. F.ex in this instance (Josh's win in Ximen), it seems obvous that some factors in the race (other racers on road, vehicles/motos, etc) lead to the second lap being "faster" on the same watts (or, in this case, equally fast on less watts). Again - and I emphasize this - I am not arguing this is Josh or anyones "fault". For the sake of this argument, its just a question of establishing that something - be it the wind, congestion on course, or something else - changed. This will most certainly always be the case, and its not really interesting in itself. I think the interesting part is a) what factors can we ("we" being mostly the race-organizer) control, and b) what factors alter the dynamics and/or outcome of the race? This last part (b) is probably the most interesting, as factors that affect some athletes more or less than others, should be subject to more scrutiny than others. Especially if those factors are among those we can control (a).

To take the 70.3 WC file as an example: The file, coupled with Josh's commentary, seems to be a very direct illustration on the effects of "pack racing" in Ironman (pack-racing inside the rules, that is). Still, I guess the file does not give all the anwers, f.ex did the chase pack let up just a little bit when catching Josh and thereby enabling Josh to "hang on" to the group on considerably less watts than he needed to hold them off for 30 min? Still, I think this is one of the most intersting aspects, how the pack affects the race. Do you have a take on this Josh?

As things stand today, the rules being the rules, you have to live with a 12m draft-zone, and the benefits (for the chase-pack) and disadvantages (for the sole leader or people not making the chase pack) this lead to. Is this how we (you Pro's?) would like it to be? I would guess that being a strong swimmer, you would benefit from (and therefore approve of) a larger draft zone leading to less "pack cycling"- correct or wrong?

Another issue, that i guess is one of Thomas' main points, is how races control motos / vehicles? Again - withoug placing any blame on the athletes - it would be interesting to establish if this in any way benefits some athletes more than others. IMO this should be one of the easiest possible flaws to correct, but I would suspect that a lack of knowledge/"proof" of how large this effect is, leads to it getting less attention than it should. In my opinion this is on the race organizers, not the athletes, to correct, and races should be organized so that this is a non-issue. The winner /lead biker should not have to be subject to suspicion that he was aided by any lead vehicles, and the chasers should not have to worried that the leader is getting an unfair "tow". In my opinion it would be near impossible to "proove" any advtange / non-advantage of this just by analyzing power-files. There are so many other factors involved (power-meter discrepancy, wind/yaw, your aeroness the day in question, etc). It would be like trying to explain the US election-results by polling to random people why they voted the way the did... Instead, there should be established a set of rules for this also, and those rules should (naturally) be followed..

Thanks for posting about your race experience here, I've often looked at your race results, and now power files because I'm also 5'8 and 65 kg and find your races more relatable (can't relate to the swim lol). Gives me hope that you don't have to be 6'1 and 70kg to be good at this!

Thanks mate, cool to hear you get something out of my racing. To take your anaolgy further, guys like Tim Reed give me hope that I can still squeeze a bit more from myself as well. He's even smaller than me, and now a World Champion. Greg Welch is another example. Damn, he was so fast for such a little guy. Just keep pushing mate. When the going get's tough, the tough get going!

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http://www.josh-amberger.com/

Please, please, please...."would have" or if you must, "would've". There is no such term as "would of".

/pet peeve

Congrats on the win. Been to Xiamen a few times...great city. Glad you enjoyed it.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

I am 5'6" 63 kilos.....you guys give us all hope...Riccitello, Welch, Bustos, Reed, Amberger, Guillaume. Keep it up. The crazy part is that your size the run should be the strongest, but you pull it off in the events that you have a bit of a disadvantage (well, unless you show up at Embrunman or IM France)

I'd rather have your Defender.

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries.....

I don't even know where to start because the amount of stuff (*edit* to clarify "stuff" as slingshot & moto comments) Thomas posted is garbage. Sorry TG, you are far off on your "agenda" in regards to the China races. I will just go bullet format as I am jet lagged, tired, and don't feel like writing in a "grown up" format of paragraphs.

- Hefei was 1 lap. I got to the "front" end of that race at roughly mile 22. From that point till mile 50 I had a TV motto with me. Riding to the left of me in the NEXT lane over, or TWO lanes over.
- Most of the Hefei course had 3-4 lanes, some sections had 2 lanes.
- Hefei was my 2nd best ride in regards to power for '16. 298AP/304NP: http://tpks.ws/a4YSe , 28secs faster than Dougal Allan / 7:50 faster than the "group".

- Xiamen was 2 laps as Josh stated. First lap clean, 2nd lap congested.
- I was in the chase chase "pack" with a few others. No motto the whole race, really no need we were so far out of it.
- The 2nd lap I took the approach of riding "safely". If there were riders to the left and the right was open, that is where I went. I went to where the "holes" were. I rode to where I felt safe and wouldn't get taken out. If there was 1 bike length open on the left but 1.5 LANES on the right, I went RIGHT. The rules are "black & white", but my safety trumps black and white.
- Josh having the lead moto and camera moto on the 2nd lap hopefully helped move guys over, but only he can comment on that.
- There were times that it was inevitable to "slingshot". What would you do TG, brake until the AG'er moved over so you could pass them?
- Having inexperienced athletes on a multiple loop course will ALWAYS make things tough. Having motos out there with the lead athletes / groups to hopefully move the AG'ers out of the way is the only real way of keeping it "clean".
- My not so great Xiamen power file: http://tpks.ws/H1AxR

For those wanting to compare data:
- My Dubai file, since Josh posted his, off the top of my head he put 2+mins into me in Dubai and I rode 292/300: http://tpks.ws/yPe9q

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

Very interesting, thanks for responding. One other Q if you can: I assume you were a swimmer growing up, what was your best time for 1500 scm when you were a "pure swimmer", e.g. how much slower are you now due to all the cycling and running, with much less time in the water??? Also, how much do you swim each week now, maybe 20-25,000 m in 4-5 workouts per week???

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Hey Brad,

I don't have much experience reading power files so I'm truly just curious....one thing that struck me was (what I perceive to be) a fairly large imbalance in L/R pedals for both races. Are those discrepancies normal for you?

Yes, that is pretty much where it is every ride.

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

Thanks for sharing!

I guess it's not a bad rig aye.

instead of spending the day on Slowtwitch curating my image, I spent it packing for the camping trip! Loaded and ready to head off to Moreton Island.

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http://www.josh-amberger.com/

Thx 4 the tips. Your gud @ grammer!

Haha sorry.

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http://www.josh-amberger.com/

I haven't been a pure swimming since I was 14. I quit because I was too small to compete with the dudes hitting puberty much harder than me, so moved to triathlon. I don't really get faster or slower at swimming with less/more run or cycling volume. It's more that I just have to work hard in the pool for a few weeks and the fitness will come soon after. I think this year has been one of my best ever years for swimming though, so I might even be getting marginally better, though I'm not sure why. It could some some
minor technique refinements I've made. But I'm swimming no more than 3-4 times a week, 18-20k tops.

Sorry but no real interesting information here, I'm just lucky I'm talented at it!

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http://www.josh-amberger.com/

Needless to say, I wont be back on Slowtwitch for a while!

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http://www.josh-amberger.com/

Me too actually. It's kind of annoying, I try to not let it bother me. Don't know enough about to it to know if it's something that can/should be adddressed. Any advice for me here? A pertinent detail is that I have an 10mm anatomically short left leg. 3mm in the tibia, 7mm in the femur.

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http://www.josh-amberger.com/

Actually, the fact that one of the best tri swimmers quit swimming full-time at 14 is quite interesting in and of itself. You were going around 17:00 for 1500 scm but yet were not competitive with the elite Aussie swimmers like Thorpe and Hackett, so you switched to tri. For most of us, a 17:00 at 14 would be very fast but the real elites were prob going 15:XX by age 14 so you prob made the right choice switching to tri. Thanks again for the info!!!

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

5mm considered clinically significant AFAIK.

Most relevance would depend on if there's asymmetric hip drop occurring at BDC of pedal stroke, if not your body is compensating via knee extension and/or plantarflexion (on the short side). Whereas symetrical knee extension & plantarflexion but with greater hip drop (on short side) would likely have "lower/upper cross" implications on your upper body.

Regards,

David

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David T-D
http://www.tilburydavis.com