Yeah, I saw that too. I'm going by Delorme Topo, which gives me 392 feet on the outbound leg and the remainder on the return leg.

EDIT: Looking at the course again today, there's no way it's a 1000 feet. Delorme must be ignoring the road grading or something. 400 feet sounds more reasonable.



- jens

     
So here's the latest update from today's TT race. I'm not sure about official times, but here's what my powertap said (with a few dropouts):

Low Diver position with higher seat (5/26/07): 22:33 (26.95mph) with 287 watts; pseudo-CdA:* .232
FIST "compatto" (5/26/07): 22:50 (26.61mph) with 286 watts; pseudo-CdA:* .24

Notes and Comments: the times today were a little slower (despite the lower CdAs) because of considerably higher air density (20 degree lower temperatures).

It looks like the FIST position needs ~10 additional watts to beat the diver position.

The two runs on 5/26 were done about 20 minutes apart. I spent most of that time wrestling with the stem swap and the @$%@$%!! expansion plug. Under these conditions, I estimate I would lose about 15-20 watts on the 2nd run (with the same setup). So it's quite remarkable to have nearly matched the 1st run.

Bottom line: if I had used the FIST position for the first run today, I would probably have been 8-16 seconds faster than I was with the diver position, i.e. the time would have been between 22:17 and 22:25


-jens

so you think you might have had closer to 300W with the new position if it had been the first run?

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_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.

So, try those SMPs again with the position. ;-)

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_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.

Probably more like 305 -- so about 15 seconds faster. Which is great. That might translate to 40 seconds over 40k. But I need more like 2 minutes.

305 is still 20-25 watts short of my road power. If I can get close to that, I'll be good. So next, it's another shot at the circus cranks. If that doesn't work, I'll try "drop pedals" (like SMPs, but without the q-factor increase).


-- jens

"Probably more like 305 -- so about 15 seconds faster. Which is great. That might translate to 40 seconds over 40k. But I need more like 2 minutes."

EAt beans beforehand. Use old skin suits with a worn out taint.

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_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.

so you're 1:20 short? i'm going to think about how to (legally) get you another :40, which would leave you with getting the other :40 on our own devices.

coupla things: it's good that compatto is at least as good as low-diver, because you had no prayer of running low-diver at worlds, since you were between 85cm and 90cm of BB to bar-end with low-diver, true? and even if this were not an issue (if you decided not to go to worlds, let us say) aren't you still riding low-diver on borrowed time? doesn't low-diver take a dive even at every U.S. race next year and thereafter? (unless i misunderstand the rules and their phase-in calendar).

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Jens, I take it you are preparing for districts in 15 days :) I will be out at Dunlap and districts, say hi if you see me. (green CSUS team kit on a P2K).

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Reverend Dr. Jay
Lake of the Pines Triathlon fastest bike course record holder - Golden State Super Sprint fastest tri course record holder - Wildflower Long Course slowest run course record holder (4:46:32)

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"If you have a body, you are an athlete." -Bill Bowerman

That's VERY interesting stuff there Jens. BTW, when you say that your "road power" is 325-330W, what position is that in? Is it in the drops, on the hoods, or on the bars? Is it climbing seated, or climbing with standing included, or is it on the flat?

I'm just trying to nail down your "supply side" of the equation...I'm not so sure you need to resort to the "circus cranks" or "drop pedals" quite yet ;-)

Tom

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Well...actually, Dan (and this is what I was trying to explain on the original Jens FIST thread), when he raises his seat to the PROPER HEIGHT with the "diver" position, THAT'S when he'd have an angle of 97 deg. With the low seat, his "true" angle (based on how close his leg came up to his torso) was actually more equivalent to 95 degrees, or so. The reason being is that you use a "proxy" for the angle and ASSUME that the seat height is correct...if it's not, and low, the "true" angle will actually be tighter since for a given torso orientation his leg will be coming closer at the top of the stroke.

So, by raising the seat 2.5cm and also the bars, he then get's into a TRUE 97 deg position, which should see an improvement since that's better than something less, like ~95 deg. or so.

But, if your theory is correct (which, with my own "farting around" on my TT position, looks to be working for me as well ) it won't be as good as the compatto's 100 deg from a power production standpoint...and it looks like Jens' experience today matches that. :-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

That's 325-330 on the hoods -- seated, climbing or flat. That's for 22-23 minutes, though. Not FTP.


-jens

The UCI rules will only apply to Nationals and NRC races:

1J1(e) As of 2008, UCI legal bikes will be required in all national championships for ages 17 and above and for all NRC events.

So really only 2 or 3 races for me. My plan for these was to do something like a combination of the Flandis and the Obree position.

The low diver position is 90+ cm out -- so far it wouldn't even be legal for the bike in front of me. ;-)


- jens

Excellent. Have you ever taken a video or picture from the side in THAT position? What's your torso angle (Slowman-style) for that?

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

You need to train more.

Maybe he has more AWC than you... ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Even if he does, 20 min of recovery ought to be enough to restore whatever fraction of it that he utilized during his first TT.

Undoubtedly true. Or have fewer kids and colds. What would you expect the drop to be for a well-trained individual?


-jens

On average? Probably about half of what you experience.

(As for why it matters, consider this: if your power during your first 20-25 min TT is X, and during the second it is X-15, then you can't reasonably expect to maintain more than (X+X-15)/2 for 40-50 min. Or to put it another way: even if raising X allows you to be ahead of Turbo at the turn-around, you're not going to beat him if you fade that much during the 2nd half.)