Take a look a Mark Allen coaching. Lots of low intensity work with some intensity added in towards the end of the training plan.



Not at all.

I've got countless races under my belt from sprint through Ironman (9). I've used a few coaches along the way but have mostly been self coached. Keep in mind that I'm not winning age groups at national races - but I've done it a few times at small local races. I haven't noticed a significant difference in my performance from when I'm coach vs. self-coached. All of my results seem to be bunched around a certain point + or - about 15/20 minutes over an IM distance depending on the race, weather, conditions, etc. I have however noticed a significant difference in my bank account balance.

To me it sounds like you've got the right mindset to freelance. It's not difficult or rocket science. For your aims, I think a coach is overrated as long as you're motivated and have a decent head on your shoulders.

Thanks, I am starting to think the coaching industry outside of professionals is a bunch of guys who want to work in the industry finding ways to drain the bank accounts of people who are dealing with the "can I do this" insecurities or the "dammit I need to be faster despite my limitations" population. But I have not seen coaching or plans that say, we just want to guide you through this process to be successful. I think my single biggest threat to possible failure is breaking down and ending up injured from pushing to hard.

Don't underestimate how much knowledge you've accrued over those years. Just add common sense and go for it. I think many people get a coach purely out of laziness i.e. they don't want to think about what training to do, and they need to be motivated externally. If that doesn't describe you, then give it a go, you might surprise yourself :)

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29 years and counting

You would be my surprised. IMO coaches tend to be good in certain areas and not great in others. For instance, recently I talked with a very high level coach who was well versed in nutrition, science of training, physiology, but they don't know a lick about tires which can make as much difference as all the training you do. It blows my mind. When it comes down to it I wouldn't get to caught up in correlating how well a job does at marketing vs actual coaching. Finding a ok coach is pretty easy task, finding a really great one for you, well not so much.

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I think the other thing is that the really good coaches are likely not in the price range of us normal folks (the ones pulling down the average salary of all the other IM finishers). There are 3 coaches I would work with in a heartbeat, however, won't happen until the kids are through University.

I think my single biggest threat to possible failure is breaking down and ending up injured from pushing to hard.

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I think a good coach that is open to your goals and such is where you can take away your fear of breaking down and getting injured.

Sure you can still get injured w a coach, but the one thing a sound coach can do is reign in your training.

But then again I think it's what you want out of it and are committed too. Do you want a sounding board? Or do you want a program that he says do X, you do it, and program evolves from there.

But the biggest thing is that you have to find coach you mesh with that will understand what you need. I've got some athletes who I know will go "off range" at times but then again I know ahead of time their circumstances of why they are doing it. I've got others who simply want to do the work I put out for them and to not have to worry.


I do think there are a ton of "coaches" who simply coach to pay for this hobby. And I've sorta resigned myself to shoulder shrugging. I've also realized those athletes likely won't even know any better going with that type of coach. It's the old Seinfeld joke when George goes, "my mechanic could say I need a Johnson rod...how the hell do I know if my car needs a Johnson rod or not".

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Some useful advice from Alan Couzens on picking a coach.....

https://alancouzens.com/blog/coach_match.html

I would add a few practical points too....

1) If you speak with a coach and they talk of their system or their plan being the solution, walk away, you are getting "cookie cut" stuff

2) Ask to speak with existing or previous athletes as to how satisfied with the coaches coaching they are/were

3) When you talk of what you want are they listening intently or already sub-vocalising the remainder of their sales pitch?

4) Ask them how they identify themselves as a coach and why.... great coaches are happy to explain their 'raison d'etre' before their philosophy

5) Discuss with them their business model and size of coaching roster, it matters......just because someone is a 'name' and charges $1,500 are you really getting the attention to detail and emotional investment you desire?

6) Know your budget and be honest with what you feel that should get you service wise, coaching is not/should not be a transactional proposition, it is relational

Hope that helps.

Kind Regards,

David

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David T-D
http://www.tilburydavis.com

Most people do not know when their Johnson is broken.....I 100% concur

Excellent advice.

well stated, and thank you

My advice to you is;

1. Join Trainerroad and start the Full Ironman Race Distance Low Volume plan. $12.00 a month and you can do your rides inside or outside if you choose. It gives you all your swimming, biking, and running in a weekly schedule. If you get tired, just take a day off. Nobody will lecture you or yell at you.

2. Higher a local Running Coach to get you good mechanics. Be upfront with him/her what your goal is and that it will probably only be for a month or 2 until you understand what good form is. Tell them you may be returning for a month here and there as you progress. This will make you more efficient in a shorter amount of time and limit your injuries. Some are part of a runners club which can be fun.

3. Higher a local Swimming Coach to teach you good mechanics. Be upfront with him/her what your goal is and that it will probably only be for a month or 2 until you understand what good form is. Tell them you may be returning for a month here and there as you progress. This will make you more efficient in a shorter amount of time and reduce injury. Or join a Masters Program and replace your trainerroad swims with the Masters Program swims. (Not all Masters Programs will teach you proper swim techniques).

4. Get a good bike fit at your local bike shop. This will get you maximized on your power and comfort at your current fitness level.

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http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com

Being on the lower end of the income spectrum, I'm always looking for ways to keep this an affordable hobby, and not impact my family budget or time any more than I absolutely have to (I want to stay married and stay involved with my kids). So I don't have a coach.

Here's what I did, since I also signed up for my first IM after several years of triathlons, and am training toward an 11hr goal: Just read a lot, get different perspectives, figure out how much time you are willing to commit to training on a weekly basis (offseason, base, pre-season, and in-season), figure out a percentage of time that you want to dedicate to each discipline (how to split the pie) during each training block, and what overall percentage of those workouts you feel should be at different intensities, organize rest/recovery days around your hardest workouts, and you are 90% of the way there. From that point, its just playing around with different ways to organize an individual workout in order to stave off boredom, keep things interesting, improve your form & technique, etc.

If you are concerned about injury, I'm guessing running is the concern. If so, just do all running at aerobic pace. You can get your harder leg workouts on the bike.

Then just put it all on a calendar and knock it out each day.

Another alternative: If this is your first IM, check your email inbox, you should have gotten something from "Commit to 140.6" with a free 24 week "Ironman Training Plan" that is about as simplified as it gets. You could use that & adjust to your own schedule.

. Higher a local Swimming Coach to teach you good mechanics. Be upfront with him/her what your goal is and that it will probably only be for a month or 2 until you understand what good form is. Tell them you may be returning for a month here and there as you progress.

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This is sorta half correct. In that if you hire a local swim coach you ain't going to find the form or feel and then be able to leave. You'll only be doing it half correctly. I think a better upfront is to look at is as a long term investment.

Or understand that while you can learn some things from a coach over a 1-2 month period, but you ain't going to then go on your own and really make big strides.

Unless your suggesting do like a video review and that's it. But your not going to be able to go with a coach and then likely retain that feel/knowledge/feedback by doing it yourself.

ETA: I should rephrase. Of course you can learn some stuff from a coach for 2 months and then leave and go about your own training. But your not going to have the understanding and feedback going forward from there. That's why I think it's much better to look at this as long term investment then some month with a coach, several months without, go back to coach, go alone again, etc.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I'll disagree with most here and say to get a coach, at least for the first IM. I started triathlons my "masters" year, at age 40, then added a coach 5 years later to do my first IM. By then, I'd done a half-dozen 70.3's and many shorter races. To me, it was worth it to have a coach (a full-time pro coach, BTW, not a guy doing it on the side) to:

(a) manage all of the workouts I had to do
(b) make sure I was doing enough work
(c) make sure I was not doing too much work
(d) talk me up when I was down -- even the best app cannot do that
(e) change the long-term plan if I was handling the load better or worse than expected -- both were true at times

I got the coach about six months before the IM, to give me plenty of time to prepare. I very quickly started doing much better in a local races. I had a great IM, finishing 20 minutes under my fantasy-goal of going sub-12. Not a world-beater, but for reference, my 70.3 PR at the time (earlier in the year of my IM) was about six hours.

The coaching kept me healthy, strong, and let me do a full IM at a faster pace than I had done for a 70.3. My IM marathon was about 10 minutes off of my open marathon PR at the time. I passed almost 400 people on the run. I could never, ever have executed a race like that without my coach. He took a 40th-percentile guy and moved him to the 70th percentile in six months.

Yes, I could have bought a packaged IM training plan. And if I'd stayed healthy, and done each workout exactly as prescribed, I could have done great. But that's not how life goes, at least not for me. Illnesses, work and family obligations, bad weather, and a bunch of other things will eventually keep you from doing key workouts. A coach can look at your data and alter the future plan to account for what you've missed. A cookie-cutter plan cannot do that -- if you've missed a 16-mile run, you might try to jump from 14 to 18 to stay on schedule. Maybe that works, maybe not. A coach can tell you how to get back on track.

My plan was to only keep a coach through the IM, but the experience was so good that I kept him, and have since won my age groups at the state championship triathlon and half-marathon races, as well as recently winning my AG in a fairly large half-marathon. And he helped me get a BQ, taking almost 40 minutes off of my marathon PR in four years.

Can you have a great IM without a coach? Of course. But I think your odds get a whole lot better with a pro handling the details, so all you have to do is put in the work. That can be easier than logistics sometimes.

I'm not here to shill for my coach, so I won't give his name unless someone asks.

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<The Dew Abides>

I agree with you. He stated he has 10 years experience with over 40 races including half distances. He probably has decent mechanics so a couple weeks could work wonders. Also since he is looking to just complete the distance he doesn't need masterful technique. He said he wanted to keep it simple. I was just giving my opinion for the very basic IMO.

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http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com

Disclaimer: I have never done an Ironman and I am not a coach.

Monday Off
Tuesday
75 minutes with bike intervals-3x12 or 2x20 minutes at FTP
run easy 15z1-steady 20 z2/3-build 20 z3/4 50-60 minutes off bike
Wednesday
"big swim day" 5-6k yards
main set of 7-10 x 400y descending to half IM pace.
run 30 minutes ez z1
Thursday
swim 3k easy
bike 60-90 minutes easy z1
Friday
Run z2 60 minutes, lnclude form strides at end of workout.
Bike 2:00-2:30 hours with 1 hour at IM pace
Saturday
1:45-2 hour long run z2-goal is to complete at an even pace, dont go too hard!
Swim 4k with some shorter intervals ie 15x100 at LT
Sunday
Ride 4 hours over hills, if feeling good include 2-3 30 minute segments at IM pace (z3).
run 30-40 minutes off bike
swim 2k in evening if have energy

This is an ideal week, take easy days with short swims/spins when tired. If you want to just finish multiply numbers by 0.6-0.75

Totals
Swim:
13-15k
Bike:
8-10 hours
Run
4-5 hours

Notes:
Most of your running should be in zone 1 and 2. IM pace is top of zone 2, low end of zone 3, so you achieve a lot of specificity by training in zone 2. It also keeps you from being injured.
Biking program includes more intensity as it is non-impact. long steady intervals are your friend.
Swimming-stay away from toodling around in the pool, every set should have a purpose.

If you have money to burn, and this is not a hobby, get a coach and pay for his lifestyle.

What is spending that money going to get you? Unless you were born with right parents, will not get you into Kona.

I guess all my years of race results are terrible since I have never had a coach, or needed a coach. ST has all the info anyone
needs for free. But if one cannot get their butt off the coach to train without someone baby sitting them, go for it.
But again, what is one expecting to get back for spending all that money? You will NEVER be better than the folks
with the right parents.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

False. The people with the best genetics always win? Shit, why even get out of the bed each morning.

So potentially looking at 20h a week for a first timer aged 50? You were right to make a disclaimer.

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29 years and counting

When I swam, I had a coach, but I still argued and fought and adjusted sets because I knew what I needed. I was fasted when I had my best coach - and he was the best because he listened to me. Sure, sometimes I had to suck it up and do the 10x1000's on 11:40....but no one knows you like you!

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"The person on top of the mountain didn't fall there." - unkown

also rule 5

This is the same dumb garbage you always post. It is as stupid now as it's always been. You won the generic lottery, so doing 'ok' is inspite of your lack of understanding of the sport.

This is what I like about this place, differences of opinion give perspective so I appreciate ALL of the advice

The swim is the least concerning, I have done OWS as long as 10K and 2.5 miles I could do tomorrow, at that distance the time difference between my best day and my worst effort is only about 10 min so I need to go in feeling ready but not my concern. I live on a lake and will have about 3 months of OWS swims 2-3 days a week before the race.

The bike has the biggest impact on the event time (longest leg) and again I have ridden 100 milers many time and my current plan has me doing a longest ride of 120 pre-taper.

My challenge has always been (in a half) just generally wearing out toward the end of the run, if I feel to strong and over-cook the bike then it cost me big on the run and I have finished races feeling like I had something left but disappointed with my bike effort.

My run is not fast, never has been never will be but I would like to not have to walk most of it because I am gassed. At my age it really comes down to having the fitness to be steady hard all day without overdoing any one part of it. More important though is hitting the start line feeling strong and healthy.

We do a lot of group rides in my area which allows me some hard effort days on the bike (trying to hang on) with my long rides being steady pace stuff. I do not see the benefit of track days, and hard tempo run in this preparation, and yet these workouts have become such conventional wisdom that I find most plans and most coaches feel obligated to include them. At the same time Friel's super simple IM plan and the getting to 140.6 seem to lack long enough work outs.

Right now I am leaning toward the self guided method but I continue to appreciate the input. Thanks again

We just have different priorities. I do not race to qualify for Kona. I race to see how well I can do with what I've got.

No, I probably don't have the genetics to qualify for Kona. But before I had a coach, I said I don't have the right genetics to qualify for Boston. I was wrong.

And by the way, I do have the right parents. That's probably why I approach sports the way I do.

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<The Dew Abides>