"My god, race fees are astronomical and little things like having enough water (no matter what the conditions) is a trivial item to have to debate. RD's should prepare for the worst case scenerio and its not lke this is the first IM for RD. They should have been prepared for a hot day." taos111

Taos,

Actually this year half of the RD position was new - Laura Carlton is the RD this year for the first time and co-directed with Graham Fraser.

For the record, IMC is the last of the licensed Ironmans and Graham has the license for a few more years for Penticton. I can guarantee that GF has already spoken to his staff on this as to how/why and what needs to be done differently in future.

The water on the inside vs water to be poured on the outside is moot. When figuring out volume for a course, bike or run, the possible habits of athletes are usually factored in. I don't think the last 200 athletes care how the athletes in front of them on the course used the water as long as there is product available for their needs when they go through.

Watching the race online and not being in Penticton has me considering coming out of "retirement" and being out there next year.

My 0.02

---

Joe Dixon
Race Director
Westwood Lake, Oliver Half & Aquabike,
"Wine Capital of Canada" Tri, Elk Lake and Cultus Lake Triathlons
http://www.dynamicraceevents.com

Its a for profit company

Kenny,

Serious question. Not trying to be an ass, but do you only seek out races that are non-profit or you know or losing money?

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Change in control? Looks like the old regime may not be as focused on the details as they used to be and new mangement is incompetent. Happens often in corporate mergers. She should be fired. But she won't be. In fact, she'll probably get a raise. All hail WTC and their infinite wisdom.

Ok. Thats fair. My post came across wrong. I need to rephrase. You are correct, they all are for profit so in that respect I have my foot in my mouth. In the sense of a pedulem always swinging, I believe WTC IM have reached a point where the profit is the goal. I think at one time the event ws the goal and profit was the byproduct. .............After every M-Dot, there are always these complaints. Not enough stuff on the course. To much drafting. To many in the swim. To much for entry ect...Then the next day the race increases the participants, increases the entry and sells out in less than 12hrs. All these people run to turn over their cash and never support some great races that are not M-Dot......................I do not blame WTC. That is what I meant by for profit. Like any company they will only focus so much (not saying they do not care at all) on change when what they are doing is working and increasing profits.
Its kind of like those who complain about Walmart but do not support local stores............I do not blame Walmart. If it was my company I would not be doing anything different. ...............People sign up for a 2700 participant event, there are going to be logistic issues.WTC does a great job of catering to this many.
Myself personally, do not care to do 2700 swims.Do not want the "EVENT" feel. Do not want to come out of the water with 2200 in a 20 minute window and expect it to be a non-drafting race. Five night minmum stays yada yada yada. I will do the Vineman's, Silverman's ect..I just always hate how everyone bitches but do not realize they vote with their money. I do think though the pedulam has swung concerning M-Dots that their focus is more just profit. It is the natural cycle in retail...................Thanks for the orrection though. Kenney

Did you read all of Joe's post?

WTC does not own this race. It's still part of Graham Fraser's license - the one he used to have for all of the North American ironman races.

I had water issues also, but had a camel back and the volunteers really Tried to get some for me when needed

I might have heard part of the issue was that the perform drink was not consumed as much as previous years with gatoraid so more water was used

---

My Blog of Me

Because Perform tastes vile. I do agree that races need to adjust their ratio of Perform to water as many other athletes don't like perform but did like Gatorade Endurance for US races and regular Gatorade for IM Canada.

When I did IM Canada it was 95 and smoke from fires was in the air. I was BOP finisher and they had ice and cold water on all the bike and run...it was heavenly.

I've heard/read this before and I don't see how it can be true. Maybe you can help point out where I'm wrong. The way I see it, when you dump water on your body you are essentially changing the weather immediately around you. It's as if it suddenly started raining. Let's say you are running an IM marathon in 90 degree F temps and you're hot, burning up. Then a storm cloud passes over and dumps rain on you. Using your logic that rain would have no effect on your body temp? How can this be? Taken to a logical extreme one could run outside in the nude in Antarctica and overheat if they didn't hydrate properly.

Help me out here. How am I wrong.

---

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I was hot today. I jumped in the hotel pool. Thus I was cool - until I was dry. Then I jumped in again. It makes a difference for me.

And the entire bike course was a pace line until the summit at Yellow (ie, 160k done). There was just no space. They have to stagger the departures.

I also heard a nasty rumor that the infamous tackers are some AG racers that are dropping them during the race to knock out AG competition for Kona spots...

I'm not a RD, but I think it's a very tricky thing to plan just how much water 3000 people are going to use on a "hot" day vs. a "warm" day vs. a "very hot" day. I'm not saying they couldn't have been more prepared - Graham made note of it in his remarks tonight, and I trust that they will be better prepared next year. They did the best they could (by all accounts) once it became clear that there was not enough water.

The only thing I'll say - and this goes for basically every race - is that being a race director is NOT easy. I don't think any RD shortchanges on purpose. Apparently, there was a LOT of extra Perform (and coke), but in hot weather, people want water, not warm sports drink (or coke). But I can see that being very hard to measure. Ultimately, I think the race had the right amount of "fluids," just not in the proper ratio...

One suggestion I would have - and I'll email it to Graham - is that aid stations ought to be set up with a "misting" section or have something to fill the role - exclusively - of "water dumped on the person." Obviously, people will still dump water on themselves (I know I did at about 1/2 the aid stations; I used a sponge at virtually every one). But I think there's got to be an alternative that makes more sense than having volunteers fill cups. A misting tower would *seem* to me to use less water and be more effective.

For everyone who did not get water, my heart goes out to you. It was a tough day even with adequate supplies. Ironman Canada is a great race, and I don't think it was necessarily "cost cutting" (though obviously you don't want to get, for example 10x as much water as you expect to use "just in case," though, of course, water doesn't spoil and could be used the next year) as much as it was a disconnect between how people used fluids and what they thought people would use. But again, I'm not privy to typical RD planning nor how one would even go about figuring out how much water people would use. I would assume 6oz of water, 6oz of sports drink, and 4oz of coke per person per aid station. But I have ZERO idea if that's accurate. I just know that's what I use (about).

---

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

X2

Judging by the feedback of Perform, and that Canada didn't even get the stupid stuff to train with till about a month before race day, I don't think it should come as a shock that many went with gel+water instead of some new random drink. I STILL haven't found the ready-to-drink stuff available anywhere, just the powder. That's insanity.

What about sponges for the bike - use a dunk tank just like the run, drop them before the end of the station and reuse? Would save a ton of bottled water and be more convenient too.

Having all 4 stations before Yellow out of water AND perform is beyond an inconvenience - that's a dangerous risk since it's in the middle of nowhere. The run course at least has running water from all the houses.

At the mile 4 aid station, someone finally got out a garden hose and started hosing people down. Good call. Need more of that. I realize logistics may not make that possible at every (or even most) aid stations, but, where possible, it must be done.

Case in point: Door Country Half this July in Door County, Wisconsin. Insanely hot day. Heat advisories all over. Hotter and most humid than yesterday. Sean Ryan is the race director. He had two misting stations and a few sprinklers set up on the run course. This avoided having all the water poured over the bodies.

---

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Having all 4 stations before Yellow out of water AND perform is beyond an inconvenience - that's a dangerous risk since it's in the middle of nowhere.

X2

I DNF'd at the base of yellow lake with about 2.5 hours to go on bike. No water , not enough to even get a gel down. Hands numb, dizzy, and cramping. Took endurolytes but almost made things worse without adequate water.

It's one thing to DNF due to undertraining etc. but due to lack of water has got me a bit pissed. Still love the course and volunteers, RD not so much!

Mexican Freezies??

At Cozumel they did not have cups of water, rather tubes (like freezies) with around 100-150mL of water in them. Easy to drink but not really effective for dumping on your head. Better than cups for drinking because it was easy to carry 3-4 of them and drink them over the course of minutes rather than a cup that you usually try to gulp down before it spills everywhere.

COMPLETELY disagree! doesn't matter how fast you are, all paid the same and took on the same event, organizational issue not an athlete issue

-----------

It's a pity you DNFéd as there is a stream very close to the bottom of Yellow Lake where you could have found water...

...and to those who stood around at the Yellow Lake aid station looking for water,well there is a reason the that aid station is called Yellow Lake...Sometimes you have to go into adventure racing mode to get through the day..

Not excusing the lack of water on the course but sometimes you have to think outside the box..


---------

I'm not in the habit of carrying a filter with me when I race. And I don't know specifically about yellow lake, but my habit is not to consume water from lakes and streams in north america without treating it due to the risk of giardia.

.......

Hahaha...well that is your choice but in 20 years of drinking the water out of almost every lake a stream in this area I have never been sick..

I guess the western world has become a little too pure these days..

------

Agreed! I am usually mid-to-backOP and I would expect to have supplies available to the last finisher. In fact, some of us will pay even more to enter a race that is sold out (IM Foundation slots) and deserve the same as FOPs.

Maybe the okanagan's giardia free then. Because in California I've gotten sick once from poor filtering technique (at least that's my guess). And it's really really really unpleasant. I'd much rather DNF a race than risk Giardia, even a big race like an Ironman.

---

Fair enough,sorry about your having to pull out and I hope you manage to get through your next Ironman without incident..

Just an odd tip for everyone,sometimes it pays to have some money attached to your bike somewhere just in case stupid shit like this happens....I know that you all got screwed by some poor organisation but shit happens sometimes and there are a few places on the IMC course where ten bucks and five minutes could have saved the day...

It happened to me during Ultraman Canada one time when my crew vehicle vanished for some time when I really needed fuel.I pulled over to a store and bought my own stuff.It cost me some time but kept me in the race..

------

I agree with you Nick.

I've done similar things numerous times on long mountain bike rides. I'm still here. There's a campsite south of here off the highway with an old well. I've drank that water several times while I was doing long solo rides and had to drink. It tasted skunky and was a light yellow colour, but that beat nothing!

Last year before the start of the swim in Penticton, I was thirsty, so I drank from a bottle someone else had left on top of one of the garbage cans.

It appears there was human error this time around. Those responsible probably feel bad about it. I don't think this has ever happened in the Penticton race previously, and I assume this won't happen again there.

I wasn't the one who DNF'd. I'm just the dopey guy who crewed for Erin at Ultraman this year. I'm just saying that there's being resourceful during a race--which I totally agree with I carry cash in races longer than a sprint, and then there's Giardia which is no joke.

But I thought we are always told that the Ironman race is the best supported long ride and run you will ever be on and you never need to carry anything because it is so well supported. At least that is what I always hear.