I do sprint and OD races exclusively and leading up to a race maybe for about the last 8 weeks I'll do speed work about twice a week. I guess some variables might be your overall running frequency and volume. Usually one of my weekly sessions is on the track and another would consist of almost fartlek type sprints or shorter hill sprints.

To be completely honest with you, that looks like a swim workout.

Question: 90% of effort is based on what? Full out sprint, PE, threshold, benchmark time?

With that said I will do two quality run workouts a week at most.

jaretj

I am not sure that I see the point of that workout in your case. You would be better off doing tempo intervals at 10K race pace (i.e., 2 X 15 min), or maybe 1/2 mile repeats on the track. The workout you describe is not likely to improve VO2 max or any parameter that useful for your racing distance. The efforts are too short and the rest is too long.

In any case, 2 workouts that stress Zone 4 and 5 efforts are enough for most triathletes.

---

Simplify, Train, Live

If you want to go fast in 10ks, I suggest at the shortest 400s and 800s really help. I usually start with 400s and then in the peak start doing 800s. Depending on age, speed workouts can happen 2x for youngsters, 1x for older folks and every other week for injury prone folks. Fartleks as someone mentioned also help and break up being on the track. Some tempo would also help. I would suggest running 90s and 3 minutes for the 800s with a full interval rest which you can jog if you'd like or just shake the legs out. Tempo miles if you string 2-3 together should be at 6:30-6:45 pace depending on how you feel. First half should feel pretty easy last half should feel super hard just like a 10k. ;)

Good luck...

a few questions...

1.) What is your avg weekly mileage?

2.) What is the surface of the track?

3.) Are you small frame or large frame runner?

Answering these questions may help get you better guidance in your speed work. With that said, I can't see the need to be running 50s and 100s as an Olympic distance triathlete, however, I could see incorporated 50m or 100m surges into your fartlek run on occasion. Personally, I prefer to run 5000-6000m per track workout of 800, 1000, 1200 intervals on poly tracks 2-3x per month. Typical efforts are 85% of max effort, with 45sec to 2min rest depending on time of season and length of interval. And for what it is worth, I am a 41yr old low mileage/ hi quality runner (15-25miles per week) focused on sprint/ 5k distances the majority of the season with a 5:35-5:45 off the bike pace. I also like to use hill work on a weekly basis, to keep from getting too redundant at the track.

---

UOFT

Every speed has some relevance in nearly every distance. If you look at Canova and Lydiard, they had their runners doing pretty fast reps and hill repeats to help with muscle recruitment early on in training, but as you get closer to races, they should get more specific to your race. In the case of training for triathlons, every leg of the race is a bit of a compromise, and you can't really train to get every ounce of running speed that your potential suggests, because you also have to train the other disciplines, and that's where pure running training and tri training start to diverge...In triathlon, you kinda need to focus on the low-hanging fruit in each discipline instead of taxing yourself with sprinting that will really only yield marginal gains towards the end of a training block. For triathlon training, this work out has very little relevance because your all-out speed doesn't matter as much as the speed you are able to maintain after you have already swam and biked...this requires more strength-based workouts than speed workouts (for me, strength intervals are typically in the 3 to 5 minute range). I'd still do a few sprints (4x50 maybe once a week) early in your base block, but that's about it.

As for volume and frequency, there's been many studies that suggest that the 80/20 split is about as magic as there is. 80% of your training volume should be well below your threshold, and 20% should be at or above your threshold. For me, that means a maximum of only 2 honest hard sessions a week out of 7. I move those around based on how I feel. Sometimes one day recovery is enough (typically if that recovery day was a swim day and the hard efforts weren't too terribly hard). If I do one of my staple temp runs (usually around an hour at half marathon pace), then it takes a couple more days of recovery before I'm able to hit it again, so it really depends on a lot of factors and there's really no one answer.

My rule of thumb is 1 speed,1 tempo and 1 long run per week. Rest of the days should be easy running.

Based on your workouts, there is no need to do 50M or 200M workouts (unless you plan on doing a sprint event at a track meet). General workouts should be 400m (6-12x), 800m (4-6x) and 1600m repeats (2-4x). You need to increase your milage for your workouts too, plan on doing 5-6 miles total (and add more as you build).

Easy runs on the track, very boring. Speedworkouts especially with a group are extreamly fun.

All of that said: unless you have a good base, there is no need for you to do speed.

Weekly milage 20-25mi. Usually 2x/week brick: 3-4 miles after the 20-30 bike ride.
rubber track. You could run barefoot on it. Great new surface.
5'9" 180#. unfortunately big legs ( great for the bike I suppose, since I averaged 20.5mi/hr for 24.8 mile last 3 Olys.) People think I played football and have never suited up for that sport.
The lowest I've gotten to in past 1 year is 175#. Just hard to loose wt.

Guess I wont do those short sprints any more.

My effort is my perceived effort. 100% was arms cranking and nearly falling. Never ran track in HS or after. I never train with anyone so I'm just trying to get advice and not get hurt.
Being 50 yo and starting all this is probably not the smartest thing to do,

I would strongly disagree with much of the opinion on this thread. I am not saying that his workout is a good one. However, to say that short, alactic (less than 12 seconds) max effort sprints with full recovery are of no value is plain wrong. The neuromuscular and muscular benefits from this work are HUGE no matter what race distance. ALL of the top DISTANCE track and field/marathon coaches I have spoken to recommend this work religiously.

Never. My only speed work is during a race.

.

---

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Do you have any workout's you can refer me to?
Thanks

True, I agree there is a benefit but I believe that would be on top of the longer interval workouts. Rre these top coaches speaking to the part-time triathlete or the professional runner? I believe his time would be more worthwhile to spent on longer intervals. I'm pretty sure if you told those coaches you had 10 hrs per week to train for a 10k, then asked would they say do 50m sprints or 1mile repeats, I would believe they would say mile repeats.

Not that valuable for a 7-8 min/mile 10K runner. Some strides at the end of a few runs maybe but a dedicated run like this is not as valuable as a longer steady paced run. When it replaces more valuable training, it becomes a problem.

Elite training is different.

---

Simplify, Train, Live

Lots of sprinting. If you are over 30 , I would skip the 50m sprints. For an aging triathlete like me, the benefits don't outweigh the extra recovery time and risk of injury.

Most people just need to run more. Get off the track, explore your neighborhood.

Once a week.

---

~~~~~~~~~
Empire Tri Coach
Team Gatorade Endurance
USATF Coach | NYRR Distance Pacer
Dad of twins

He was disagreeing with the premise that short sprints like that "are of no value" to someone like this guy. And he's right. I don't think he was claiming we should replace all (or most) tempo runs with short sprints.

For this season I've been predominantly running hills. I thought this would make me stronger and run faster on a flatter run coarse. And if the tris had hilly runs I'd be prepared.
Being I have no coaching, I thought maybe that was not a good idea and started doing the track.
How does a 50yo go about getting under 7:00min/mi in the 10k without doing sprints of 100-200 yds then? Doing more miles does not make sense. I'll just more tired and slower won't I? ( Don't know I'm not a coach). How many miles am I supposed to run a day to get to under 7:00 min/mi?

I do speed work once every couple of weeks. It typically consists of the George Dallam prescribed (in his Championship Triathlon Training book) 4x100, 4x200, and 4x400 with less than a minute rest between efforts and about 3 minutes between sets. I started doing this because the premise agreed with what I had already observed to be true in my experience: you can't be fast if you aren't quick. You can't expect to hold a 5:00 mile in a 10k if you can't run a mile in 5:00. Building speed at the intermediate distances below your goal race will improve your speed at every longer distance assuming you have the fitness to go with it. I had already observed this when my wife got slower on our college swim program than she was in high school. She was a 16:40 mile swimmer who could rarely get under 17:00 in college because the coach had her focused on long distance training. In high school she had done regular 25, 50, and 100 yard intervals focused on pure speed. Somehow our college coach assumed she could still hold 1:00/100 while never doing 100s faster than that in practice, often having sets of 1,000s and other stupidly long and boring swimming sets. It didn't work.
Since I started doing speed work in the past 2 years I have gone from running about 6:25s in a sprint Tri with an open 5k pace at 6:13/mile to consistently going about 5:55/mile off the bike so far this year (and I haven't raced rested yet). Not unbelievable improvement but steady and satisfying for a non-runner.

---

Powertap / Cycleops / Saris

A non runner!? How can you say 5:55 min/mi is a non runner? Especially if you are doing that off a bike. I could hardly put 4, rest in between 1/4 mi's to add up to that! . So you sub 6:00 min/mi in the 10k in Oly's?
What is your best OLY time. You got to be in the 10%.

I'm a non runner in the sense that it's by far my weakest leg in the sport. I have only done one OLY this year and I was so tired after the swim that I almost had to walk through T1, so hopefully the 43 run split there isn't a good representation of what I can expect:) Other than that I ran a 38:30 and a couple of 40:0Xs last year so no sub 6:00 paces off the bike yet (though I do expect to be pretty close at my A race). And my best OLY is 1:58, almost entirely on the strength of my swim and bike.
But there is another local triathlete who can hold a pace off the bike that I can barely hold for 4x400 with rest between, so we are all in the same boat if we start comparing ourselves to others too much:)

---

Powertap / Cycleops / Saris

Sprints of 100-200 yards are a good thing to do... but in small doses. They're not the bulk of your training, or even the bulk of your speed work. They are a small part of the whole package. The package mostly consists of other things, some of which you seem to already be doing.

Is there a local running club you can join -- with a coach and perhaps track workouts, group runs. etc. There is nothing like running regularly with people faster than you to improve your running., Lacking that, unless you are extremely self-motivated, maybe consider finding a running coach for a season...?

Training for the run, like the other disciplines, is not a static effort. Specific sessions ("speed" or otherwise, whichever way defined) serve a purpose depending on what you're trying to accomplish at a given time in your training. Are you sharpening for a race? Are you using a specific cycle to get faster? If so, the session you describe may have some value, once a week or so, with the appropriate run volume, for a period of 3-6 weeks. Presumably after that your body has adapted and you'll need to change the stimulus.

If all of this sounds rather complicated, just ditch the "speed" concept for the time being, and in your case I would simply do strides once or twice a week. After your run, any run, do 4 or 6 20-40 second efforts at mile pace or slightly faster and get plenty of rest between repeats, 2-3 minutes. You can also do this with hills, 4-6 10 second repeats at 90% effort, walk down and have a total rest time of 2-3 minutes. Focus on good form and, although you're running fast, make sure that it doesn't feel like a workout. You can do this year-round and consistency will help your neuromuscular development and you'll get faster (again, assuming you have a certain level of volume, I think you mentioned 20-25 mpw).

Once you start to get faster and have the appropriate volume (maybe a minimum of 30-40mpw or 4-5 hours a week), then you can start worrying about specific sessions and stimuli to develop your running. If you're interested in information about this sort of thing, I would recommend the new book by Peter Magill et al, Build Your Running Body. I hope this helps.

Not to hijack, but I've been wondering about this. How do you know when you have a "good base" level of fitness for any given race distance, say, the 10K run leg of an Olympic tri? Do you automatically back-time it from your peak and build phases of training? Or is there a way to test your base fitness, maybe with HR or some other way?

I think in the past I've done exactly what you said: started my speed work too soon.

Good question. What should a base miles per week be for 10k, 5k, HM or Marathon?