http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...lo_S3_Vs_R3_P5338014

Nick....give it a rest....this is not an R3 vs S3. Two entirely different bikes being compared. If my neck feels a difference after 9 hours in the saddle, then there is a difference between the P3 and old Slice. It's that simple. Until you had a similar neck injury, you're really not in much of a position to comment. Now I just want to know between the Old Slice and the new one what differences there are....keep in mind the new Slice has a slightly longer front center and slacker head tube, which makes things generally more like a Harley for long duration aero riding (this was the entire premise of Dan's first inception of the Quintana Roo tri bike).

if you get one, post a report. It's definitely on my shortlist. I like the concept of the slacker head angle, plus the 2 waterbottle bosses for training.

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I'm looking to get the new slice also, for this reason. I think the rake on the fork will be substantial in ease & comfort. I'm hoping.

The only downside in the slack head tube angle is that it won't corner or do switchbacks that well...pretty well a non issue in most tris other than Embrunman, IM France and Alpe d'Huez (notice the common French theme)....maybe IM Mallorca and 70.3 Mallorca too.

dev, i dont want to be rude or hurt your feeling but this bike is more compliant....;)

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
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I can't think of any races I'm doing that have a technical bike course. Hell, one of the races I'm likely going to do is on the runway at a military airfield.

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1mm more compliant!


http://www.tririg.com/...e_Launches_New_Slice

Not with that saddle it's not. Yuck.

I can't imagine it would be enough to matter. I'd be shocked to ever see a triathlete that doesn't regularly ride MTB to ever really push a tri bike in a race. Head tube only matter during initial turn in and change in direction. after that, the slack tube will made it more stable in a corner, especially over bumps, cross winds, etc.

Worst, case, you just need to countersteer a little bit. It's not like it's a motorcycle where at 80mph in a mid-speed series of turns (80mph is mid speed on a sportbike...50mph is a "bus stop", high speed is 100+) taking 0.05s longer to change direction will completely change your line. Relative to the speeds on a descent, grip available on the tires and the safety margin you always should leave, things don't really happen all that fast so changing direction isn't a big deal.

Bottom line, you'll save more time with a bike that's stable where you ride 30-50 ft shorter distance over 2 hours, than whether you can more aggressively throw a big into a turn. Plus a stable bike often give you more confidence to ride more aggressively in a turn.

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No idea but it's too bad that the 2015 paint schemes are so darn ugly, except for the $10,000 Black Inc model. Pretty hideous IMHO.

My wife has the girly version of the bike you are looking at. It hasn't been on the pavement yet, only the trainer. However, it is her first tri bike and was bought based on the comfort factor as recommended by the LBS fitter. We passed on the Shiv for this bike just because of that. So the people selling it seem to think it is still a comfy bike.

Her bike is not as "gaudy" as some of the Slices I've seen, BTW.

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

No. You give it a rest. Im tired of your "science can't explain this" mentality. It's getting really old.

I heard the question as: "How wide of a rear tire can I run?"

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it'll fit 28's....

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Nick.....different geometries make a difference for sure and this was largely what I was getting at. Plus my first generation Slice I can train on 32 mm tires. I can barely get a 25 mm into my P3 cut out for training. Different athletes have different needs....not all of us have the same needs so please accept that. Jonnyo gave a perfect example of a different frame dimension bike that will ride differently. The S3 vs R3 comparison was a good one given the geometries from what I understand are the same. If we compare bikes with different geometries and different tube shapes (which is what I am really referring too), then there is some difference, the extreme example being the Dimond with different tube shapes. If not all bikes set up with the same contact points would be identical regardless of the how the frame is distributed under the contact points, which we know is not entirely accurate.

I can't comment on the new Slice, but I just went from the Slice RS to the P2. Having ridden both bikes with the same wheels, tire pressure, seat, and handlebars (and on the same routes), I would say I felt the Slice RS to be more compliant than the P2.

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Am picking up my Slice next week, and from I heard and been told that even in descents in races as Mallorca 70.3/IM Mallorca, it should handle just fine, as handling is more akin to a road bike. Did both races on a P5, and some corners were .... well interesting at the very least and did not feel like proper sharp turning circle in a P5.
If the weather plays nicely I will take it out next weekend for a spin and see how it goes, and then take it to Mallorca end of March for a week of cycling to give it some miles, and my legs some actual cycling.

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Hello
I m french girl so sorry for the bad english.
I ve got the new slice since early january... The black one ... I also own the old Slice that i ve loved a lot .., i ride about 10000km/ year and build my bikes by myself ... 4x Kona and 5 slots

So the new Slice:
- before the old slice i ve had a p2c and i also ride a new p2... In fact the new slice is exactly between the old slice and the new p2 for the riding behavior. It s a little bit more stable. You also feel that the power is "more" or well transmitted to the rear wheel (i ve found the old slice a little bit smooth for that comoared to the p2).
- the comfort is just perfect. As the old one or even better particularly on the rear. The front end is a little bit more stiff than the old slice but smoother than the p2 and just perfect for "curving"

So finally: a little bit more stiff than the old one (between the old slice and the new p2) but very comfortable

I ve changed from the black model:
- the vision front end to put my easton attack tt old model (38cm wide vs 40 and 150g less)
- the wheels obviously for zipp
- i also put my p2max ...
- the saddle is also out for a sitero

Do I love it ?
I did really like my old one and the new one is just now coming to take the place of the old one. As comfortable or more, a little bit more stiff to transfer the power. As much enjoyable for curving (taking very sharp or smooth turn...
I really love the brakes (dura ace) by far the best brakes i ve ever had. (Had sram red and then tririg omega on the old one).
The rear brake is hidden but you can work on it even with your bottom bracket / power2max in place and even if it s not as easy as usually it is quite manageable.

Hope to help
Feel free to ask some other questions ...

Kealla, thanks for the responses...really looking into this as my shop carrier both Cervelo and Cannondale (have the old Slice and the New P3). I love your description of "carving"....that's what the descents felt like at IM France back in 2010. I really miss that course. I must have made up 200 positions on the descents (shows you how badly I swam) :-). Also good to hear from one of the posters that I can run 28mm tires in it for training. That is a big bonus for sure.

Can i ask if you agree with the premise that "compliance" can be considered in 2 ways, ie one being dimensional deflection, and the other perhaps being vibration attenuation?

If so, the former, ie deflection, is in relative terms minutely contributed to by the frame set itself when compared to the tyres, saddle, shorts, bar tape, and pads on extensions etc.. ie 2-3 mm from the tyres, 4-5mm from saddle padding, 2-8mm from short pad, etc etc.. where as a frame my deflect (and many have been measured, I'm thinking the tests done in Tour and RIDE magasine here)... to be under 1mm in a vertical plain...
If this is correct then in summary the frame doesn't matter a deal...

In the latter, ie vibration attenuation and therefore ride feel (which personally matters a hell of a lot to me) can and does vary greatly, at least in perceived terms.. empirically even this may be small...... and again this attenuation is effected a lot by the build of the bike as a whole.. not just the frame in isolation....

If this is all sounding about right, then is your query about compliance more to do with the latter than the former?
If not then as long as the newer frame lets you use similar or greater compliant parts then you'll be onto a winner (such as tyre clearance as you mention)
If yes, then its gonna be that you can build the same bike (ie combination of parts), and importantly the way in which the frame set deals with vibes etc.... and its this last point which is what i guess you would really love to know about...... and arguably what "bike tests should discuss in more detail"

Thanks for tolerating my ponderings...

Really I think it is about high frequency attenuation (think rough chip seal pavement). Low frequency attenuation is meaningless unless you are riding on roads filled with cracks and potholes so it is more a question about the former. For the latter, you could ride the old Trimble with the right saddle and tires and it would deal with things the same way.....random picture from the web

So very much the system as a whole then...
I understand, some bikes (not just frames) as a system sometimes just seem to transmit the stuff you want and damp the unwanted noise so nicely it's almost joyous...
Oh and thanks cos I still use the original flites in your ancient pic ... Feeling aged now... ;)

In this thread, at least, no one has claimed that science can't explain it.

The issue is that no one has used science to explain it. Except in a few quasi-scientific toy examples, one of which you posted.

There is no principled way of comparing compliance among the thousands of bike models out there.

We can guess. A beam bike must be more compliant, right? Because it "looks" more compliant, and the manufacturer says so. If it has skinny stays like the R5, it must be compliant!

In the absence of any principled method we naturally have to resort to subjective, anecdotal evidence. Because that's all there is.

It'd be useful to have a standardized test that measures the spring constant and dampening characteristics between the various rider contact points, and then have that as part of the normal "spec sheet" of every bike. But that doesn't exist.

Or you can just claim that compliance doesn't matter at all. But that's pretty hard to defend, particularly since manufacturers like Cervelo seem to take the effort to engineer to their own internally-specifified compliance #'s, like between the S3 and R3. It'd also be pretty hard to defend amongst the every-growing resurgence of beam bike aficionados.