Purchased a Hong Fu Avenger TM6, not happy with bike. At all.

I think some people are marketing these open mold bikes under their own shingle... don't know how that fits into the calculus of what you're trying to figure out.

Edit: my bad, I was thinking of DengFu.

I'm sure there's a google-fu joke in here somewhere

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

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Care to explain ?

Copied from another thread:


my impression so far witht the TM6 :

-The delivery took a lot more time then expected. I was told that the frame was ready and in stock when I ordere but I had to wait 4 weeks for the delivery. I have also bought wheels but never received the skewers.
-The frame is delivered without instructions and without any torque guide. It's like building an Ikea furniture without any instruction..it's difficult but not impossible.
-At eyesight the quality of the frame is near perfect.
-I only rode it only once for 35km on a flat surface and I really like how it feel. ( but I will need more time to give a better review of the frame )
-The lack of instruction and torque guide is making me very nervous. I'm really scared for my first hilly ride. ( on my first ride my headset got really loose and I not quite sure how much torque I should apply so it would not happen any more )

tl:dr

-long delivery and missing parts for the wheels
-lack of instruction
-neat, great quality frame, and fast ( so far )

At the moment, I am still trying to hash out the details of my grievance. Details of my transaction may make it's way here, I should hold my cards tight for now.

Bought the wrong size & had an issue with the fork.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...post=5476892#5476892

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wrong size, yes. that I can live with. some other serious problems arose, that I am currently trying to hash out.

I cannot believe these are your complaints when you bought a bike at 1/5th the normal cost of a name brand superbike. And getting it shipped from China. You should be able to figure out how tight to make a bolt, even without a torque wrench. Instructions for a frameset? Your complaints, maybe except for the "missing" skewers are all on your end, not theirs.

Whoa. Thats an harsh answer. Hope that you are not always that angry ( that must be hard on your friends and family ;-) )


Well, if your read my post correctly those are impressions and not complaints.


Impression

Noun
impression (plural impressions)
The overall effect of something, e.g., on a person.

I knew what to expect. I knew I had to learn a lot to build a bike ( Not just a normal bike but a time Trial bike with all the cable inside the frame ! ). But yet torque instructions are usually given by the manifacturer.
I think it's important to give those impression so any person who wish to buy from Hongfu will knew what kind of work is ahead of them. But please, don't make me say stuff I did not say my friend !

''I cannot believe these are your complaints when you bought a bike at 1/5th the normal cost of a name brand superbike. And getting it shipped from China. You should be able to figure out how tight to make a bolt, even without a torque wrench. Instructions for a frameset? Your complaints, maybe except for the "missing" skewers are all on your end, not theirs''


How do you come up with the 1/5 cost figure. I was surprised at how much people were paying for this frame. Once you have to buy all your components separately, the finished cost of that frame goes up to be as much or more than a comparable name brand complete bike. And comparable is a relative term since you are buying a picture on the internet with no testing or verification from the company


And ''Superbike'', how does a no name, no test, no wins frame get into the mix. Your standard for what the top of the list is must be pretty broad.

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''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

Can we append this to discuss DengFu as well? I've read many reviews about DengFu and there seems to be an overall more positive consensus about DengFu then HongFu. I am curious how many people ride DengFu frames and how they like them.

in another thread, i'm happy to do so. but for THIS thread i'm really just interested in hongfu.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I built a hongfu tm-06 frame recently, and it was quite difficult. But mostly for my own, stupid, reasons of nitpicking it and getting it precisely how I wanted it.

Overall the process of ordering and receiving the frame from them was easy, i had no issues. You just had to stay on them about shipping it, which is something that I think people may be reluctant to do because they expect a specific level of service that they receive from a local company. Yes, sure, with the loss of cost some service might be lost with it. But badgering them about shipping the frame earlier eventually worked and they shipped it earlier than the rest of the group. It took a while longer for them to ship it than they said (based on the markings from the box), but it got here in about 4-5 weeks all said and done, which is what i expected.

The issues I ran into were minimal, and mostly my own fault. I didn't have enough stack, so I had to do some custom fixes to the extension/pad clamping. I had to get fancy with the cable routing. I had to take extreme care with how I routed the brakes. But I expected all that. Overall my experience was good and I would recommend it to anyone, with a few tips of advice as i've listed above.

The only negative, and of little consequence to me, things I will say about the frame is that the fork is probably designed a little half ass-ed. It looks like a fork that was made for brakes mounted facing backwards, and the drop outs were flipped in the mold and that's all they changed. Which was a little hard to notice in pictures, but other than that it's a great bike. Seems comparable in performance, and I know I will see fast bike splits with it.

This is not limited to open mold frames from the far east as most of the components that have torque specs are supplied by companies other than the frame manufacturer. Main stream component manufacturers typically emboss or print torque specs on stems and seat post clamps but last time I checked Campagnolo, DT Swiss, Easton, FSA, Reynolds, Ritchey, Shimano, SRAM, and Zipp all had product manuals that could be downloaded for reference.

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I have a Dengfu FM098 road frame with three sets of their 27mm wide carbon wheels. 40mm clinchers, 60mm clinchers and 60mm tubulars. I was also one of the first to build up the TM6. Group ordered with two other STers. Got mine right away, their's were delayed. I ordered a 54cm with BSA bottom bracket. Don't know if that made a difference in ship time. Received in less than a week once it shipped. I posted some of the details of my build both here and on Hongfu's Facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/#!/HongFuSports?fref=ts I did some custom routing on my Di2 based on good info from this forum. I absoultely love the bike. Setup was relatively easy and I required no additional changes to the bars or pads. Only issue I had was the front brake once the cover was installed. Hongfu addressed this on their FB page. I used the wrong noodle. The problem is that my cable housing was already cut and it's gonna be a pain to try and reinstall new cable housing long enough for the shorter brake noodle. I'll eventually get around to it, but it works for now. Directions would have been helpful here. Since my build, Hongfu has done several installation videos on their FB page.

As for comparison. I love my Dengfu FM098 Road frame and wheels. I've had it for almost two years now with zero issues. I also love the Hongfu TM6. Both companies are producing good products IMO. They both have a booth at Interbike so I'm going to speak with Hongfu about their Avenger road frame this September.

I don't have a TM6, but I have ordered frames from a few different dealers (hongfu, dengfu, Greatkeen).

My easiest transaction was with Dengfu. The frame (FM098) arrived within days, and the build went very easily because of well-thought-out internal cable routing. I rode it for two years and now my friend is still riding it. No complaints.

Hongfu (FM039) and Greatkeen (the generic dogma version and the generic venge) fames are alright, but they seem to take just a little more prep / tinkering to get things installed correctly. When they were built, they functioned just fine. But I shutter with annoyance every time my friends need my help to re-cable the bike. ...If this puts things into perspective. I'd rather re-cable my '09 P4 than work on that no-name venge bike!

Dan / anyone else - I'm in China for work and am meeting with HongFu at their factory tomorrow. Any questions in addition to Dan's earlier ones you guys would like me to ask? (Planning on asking those)

Also - to be clear, I am a fan of their FM066 and TM6 and have had good results on both this year (check my old posts and you can see I was one of the earliest Speed Concept Gen 1 owners and am no troll ;-)

Bought one of their hard tail 29'ers "chiners"...Scott rip off. Honestly it's the best riding bike I have had to date and I have had my fair share of bikes.

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http://RoadID.com/...te/4HC4V-TAFQ9XPJDTX

Awesome. Take pictures!

Would you say the TM6 was harder to work on than your SC? I ask because the slowtwitch article on the Avenger made it out to be a difficult bike to work on (...which it probably does require some competent wrench skill). But after all the issues with the first generation Trek Speed Concept, I wonder if the TM6 is any worse to work on?

Wireless shifting will take care of some of these problems. Also, you could run an article on how ordering cheap carbon wheels from China works out for people.

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Re post from months earlier:
This is an edited post I put up on Feb24, just to share my experience related to what appears to be a sister re-seller Dengfu. Dengfu and Hongfu sell the same lineup, making me guess/assume that neither actually make what they are selling.

My Dengfu experience started off well, but has over time soured greatly.

I bought my FM086 about 16 months ago. I like the idea of not having (yawn) yet another p3 or whatever, that looks the exact same as 20 other people I know. I like painting it and I have received tons of compliments on the looks.

Now, this will not be a cheaper bike than alot of similar triathlon carbon bikes you get from your LBS. The bike manufacturers get deep discounts on the the components and that gets passed on.

Sales: You are dealing with China- they will say yes to anything you want to buy (EDIT: I was, possibly rightfully, criticized for that comment. I do however think there are some cultural differences related to customer service and sales ethics, which is not to say all Chinese salespeople are bad, and also not to say that all non-Chinese salespeople are good). So, for example, they will sell you the 27mm wide aerowheels for your bike, even though they will rub the brakes they sold you. A LBS or bike maker would not do you over for a few bucks like that, and you would know it when you went for a test ride.

Quality: The bottom bracket is not supported nearly enough on my bike. The flex is very noticeable. I did not have this on the (to be fair, expensive) Trek Speed Concept 9.9. The integrated stem failed after a year and had to be replaced (at my cost, plus shipping).

Customer service: Horrible. My experience has changed my buying habits. I will never buy anything directly from China again. Ever. I ordered 2 sets of aerobar risers (because they are just too low on this bike). They shipped one set. No problem, this can be corrected so I contacted them. However there was no response from "Tina" for a week. Another followup. I was told that I was wrong, they shipped 2 sets. I took a photo of the packing slip which shows ONLY ONE SET!!! She still insisted that both I and the packing slip were wrong. Unfortunately there was no reasoning with these guys. I had spent about $1800 on the frame, fork, brakes, aerowheels, aerobars, and they were fighting me over a piece that costs them about 50 cents to make. She refused to correct the mistake, said that I was a liar, but, that I could buy more stuff if I like and then they would ship the part. Heck, even if I was lying, she should have still sent them just to have the good customer singing their praises. I begged for 2 more days for them to correct the mistake and she went silent to all emails. After my paypal dispute she suddenly was once again interested in my situation and offered to send it to me AFTER I ended my complaint with the paypal dispute procedure. Of course once you end the dispute you can not restart it, and at that point I could not really trust them. I offered to end it once I received the goods I paid for, but she never responded, ever again. Paypal ruled in my favor and my entire payment was refunded.

In talking about this experience to others who have to deal with manufacturers in China, it appears that this is very common. I understand that there will be problems sometimes. No manufacturer is perfect. I don't know if it's a China thing or a business model thing (low cost=low margins=fighting hard on returns). I do know that any seller has a choice on how they treat their customers.

So, beware.

Bought a HongFu FM032 road bike in 2012 and could not be more pleased with it. The headsets are tapered, so replacing those can be a pain, but a quick google search explains where to find ones. I've beat the shit out of this frame and it's held up. I throw 28s on it and ride a lot of dirt, and it's withstood everything. Before this frame I had a Giant TCR, A Specialized Roubaix, and a Cannondale R400, the FM032 is my favorite of the three by a long shot. I was able to research every frame they offered, and pick one with the geometry I though would most suite my preferences, about as close to a custom build as I'll ever get. I spent 4 years working at a bike shop in college, road a lot of demos (road, mountain, and TT), and have a good deal of experience in the building bikes.

My roommate was so impressed w/ my road bike he ended up getting one, and later a carbon 29er frame from them. Both have been excellent.

I currently own a Cervelo p2 in addition to my FM032, and I'm not so sold on the China "Super" bikes, but I know I enjoy riding and maintaining my fm032 a lot more than my Cervelo. The fm032 even came with built in internal cable guides, no fishing for cables ever. I'll never get another road or mountain frame from a major brand unless I come across a crazy good deal on something used. I also really enjoy building everything and picking out the bars/components/ and such. A lot of the components are different now, but this is how much the initial build cost me.

Total cost in 2012 (except the power meter which was purchased in 2014)
Frame and fork $450
shipping $50
headset/hanger $20
Shimano Ultegra 10speed complete group new in box off ebay $650
Ritchey handlebars and stem $100
Handlebar Tape $20
Powertap Wheelset from Performance bike $700
Gatorskins $80
Tubes $5
Cables/Housing $20
Fizik Arione $70

So the entire bike, every single part including a wireless powertap rear hub = $2170
Before the PowerTap I had some Ultegra Wheels I got off ebay for $300, so $1770 for the bike at that point

I haven't kept exact mileage totals, but the frame has somewhere in the range of 25,000 miles on it right now.

I wasn't part of any group purchase here or anything.
But for reference I just rode 4:55 on my fm069 in Kona. Love the bike, especially when I passed hundreds of people on much more rxpensive bikes!

http://www.planetx.co.uk/...g-next-from-planet-x

This one is same for TM6? have any people buy it?