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Hitting nutritional bottom
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Heya guys. I finally got my new tri bike and I must say WOW. Love it and feel like I could ride it all day. Went for a ride today, the longest on the bike by far(60 miles) and had a difficulty in which I would like advice on.

On the way out, I was amazingly fast. Went with a buddy who rode a road bike and flat out left him behind. I added 2-3 mph on my average speed on the tri bike versus my road bike and I felt great. We did a pit stop at the middle mark and I ate two candy bars(only thing in the vending machine nearby and I didn't bring food along) and a bottle of gatorade. On the way back, I clonked out. I felt weak and couldn't even manage a slow pace. Felt like I was totally drained and did not even want to go on. I was going something like half the speed on the way out. I ended up switching to a lower gear comb and tried spinning my way home.

My question is, is this what it feels like to be in nutritional deficit? Did eating at the half way mark a mistake? Does pushing the larger gear comb, for the higher speeds, take up that much more carbs? I also found it harder to spin on the tri bike. Not sure if this is because I was already drained or if it's because of the different muscle use. I've lasted the same ride on my road bike without having to eat and having no problem. My cadence on the tri bike is a tad lower, around 80-85 compared to my road bike's 90-95. Is this another factor?

Oh and another thing is, I went veggie about a month back, is this also making my endurance drop? Thanks guys.

Izzy G.
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Re: Hitting nutritional bottom [IzzyG] [ In reply to ]
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Anyone?



bump
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Re: Hitting nutritional bottom [IzzyG] [ In reply to ]
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I've been vegi for over 3 years now and have never seen any endurance performance issues. As long as you take in enough protien and carbs post exercice you should have around 90mins of fuel stored just in your muscles. After that you need to start taking in some form of fuel source replacement.

You are probably using slightly different muscle groups on your tri-bike which could add to the dead leg feeling after going hard.

Sounds like you just burnt up your legs in the new position and compounded it by not taking in enough good fuel. Training or racing longer thatn 2 hours I will consume 200-300 calories per hour.

I've read that mixing in pretien after 3 hours helps prevent mucle break down but find it also slows down the digestion process.

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http://www.nunnsontherun.com
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Re: Hitting nutritional bottom [IzzyG] [ In reply to ]
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Welcome to the world of bonking.

It is difficult to determine the exact cause but I have a few suggestions to look at,
  • What was your diet like in the day leading up to the ride, or prior to your ride? It sounds like you were not properly nourished to begin with (ie. not enough calories).
  • You went too far for your fitness level and simply ran out of fuel.
  • Eating candy bars and gatorade are not going to help but it appears you were already too late.


You can certainly bike 60 miles if you are a vegetarian but you may need to determine if you are consumming enough calories (often a difficulty with vegetarians). You should ensure you have adequate protein the day before.

My guess would be that you did not properly fuel up prior to going out there and bonked. For a 60 mile bike ride, 2 candy bars and some gatorade is simply not enough food, particularly if you started in a depleted state and pushed yourself further than you are used to.

__________________________________________________

You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008
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Re: Hitting nutritional bottom [IzzyG] [ In reply to ]
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Well, we dont have much info to go on here. How long was the ride? Did you even have water for the first half?

Lets assume you at 2x250 cal candy bars, and chased them with 150cal of gatorade. Simple sugars need an 5-7% solution to be absorbed properly (gatorade is in the range 6% I think). So, to dilute the 500 calories in the candy bars, you would have needed nearly 80 ounces of water.

Chances are the food just sat in your stomach and was not absorbed. A better plan would have been to buy 3 bottles of gatorade, or chased one candy bar with water, and then drink gatorade after you started rolling home.

So, the lesson here is:

Plan ahead, take food & water for every ride and drink before you are thirsty, eat before you are hungry.

When you grab simple sugars during a ride, chase them with LOTS of water.
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Re: Hitting nutritional bottom [afeltz] [ In reply to ]
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It took me roughly 1hr 15-20 mins on the way out, averaging 22-23 mph. Took me 2 hours to get back, so in total, 3 hrs 30 mins. I had a full bottle of water but I don't think that was enough. Nutrition the day before was poor after looking in retrospect.

What kind of foods do you bring along on rides? I have 3 slots for water bottles and the 3 back pockets of my jersey. I could use 2 water bottles for water and the other to store extra food. I'm just not sure what to bring along for a 60 mile ride if I plan to average 23 mph. How about nutrition prior to the ride? Should I be consuming additional(surplus on top of my daily needs) calories the day before? Or is it sufficient to just eat enough the day before?

I'm going for another ride today(this happened yesterday) and hopefully do a 40 mile ride without a problem. I'll be eating more before and bringing water as well as sandwich. This should not take more than 2 hours, including some warm up. Will report again after. Thanks for the replies thus far. Keep them coming! =D



Izzy G.
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Re: Hitting nutritional bottom [IzzyG] [ In reply to ]
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Well at that pace, you are either very gifted, your computer is off, or you were firing on all cylinders and that caused you to bonk.

We are talking about nutrition in this thread, not training, so I wont comment on doing a hard 3:30 ride, and a 2hr/40mile ride the next day:-)

If you are eating properly after workouts, and keeping your energy stores full, you will start a ride with 2000 cal. stored. At 23mph, you are probably burning 800/hr, so it is obviously need to take in additional fuel for a long ride.

As a general rule, for rides lasting:

1 hr, water only. Energy stores are high enough to fuel this effort.

1-2hrs, gatorade only. Few calories so you dont deplete much of your stores.

2 hrs or more. 200 calories/hour, with appropriate amount of water.

I try to get 16oz water/hr minimum, so 2x24 oz bottles will cover me for 3 hrs. That and 6 Gu's.
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Re: Hitting nutritional bottom [IzzyG] [ In reply to ]
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I ride that distance all the time and it has taken me some bonk sessions to figure it out at least for me. I am 188 lbs. and in hot weather I drink one bottle of Cytomax every half hour and between 3-400 calories (add one Cliff Bar per hour)... that's what it takes to keep me fresh all the way through...I actually asked Brad Kearns about this and he suggested to up the calorie count to 400/hr. Fluids are a big problem on the bike, you can't go by how you feel, it will be too late by the time you feel bad...

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I ride a Cervelo...get over it....
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Re: Hitting nutritional bottom [afeltz] [ In reply to ]
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I checked my computer the first time I hit such speeds and it's right on, unless my car and two other cyclist's computers are off as well. I'm just feeling high on the speeds that I'm hitting. Speeds which I found difficult to maintain on road bikes. I was probably firing all cylinders but didn't feel like it was hard because my heart rate was below 155(I set my Polar to beep if I go above).

And your hint on the poor training schedule(hard ride day before, hard ride again today) is something I felt today. Felt too drained to maintain the same speed, let alone the same intensity. Today's was cut shorter to 20 mile taking about 1 hr 25 mins, 15 mins warm up, 5 mins cool down. Went for a short mile jog afterwards as well.

I just love cycling in the tri position so much so that I'm neglecting the other two disciplines. Hard to want to take off on any day. =P

Thanks for the rule of thumb list, was definitely very useful.

Izzy G.
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