I read something in recent weeks where there was a discussion on pool swimming vs open water swimming. It might have been here on the forum.

Someone wrote that they found that they were an 'open water specialist' with a longer more gliding stroke, while their shorter distance specialists used a choppier more rapid stroke.

Apparently in shorter pools a high turnover stroke with recovery in the turns can milk out more from a swimmer in short distances, but to be energy efficient over longer distances (in longer pools or open water with less turns to recover) a longer stroke is more beneficial.

But that just passing on something I read without remembering where I read it.

Swim smooth coaches here in Perth say that gliding is good, but that pausing is bad, the gliding should be integrated into your stroke and not be a period of time where you lose forward momentum. So that suggests a bit of both? A good stroke should have a component of glide, but still have a reasonably frequent turnover (as long as you can keep aerobic).

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Its about the entire journey, not just the moment you cross the line.

No. Glide bad.

Higher turnover with a shorter reach is generally better in ow, but if you haven't been doing it in practice, don't change anything n race day.

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Don't change anything except while in training.

IMO 75% of triathletes should strive to be comfortable in the water and no more. I'm not a fast swimmer, but I can swim all race distances with an even moderate level of effort, which makes the early stages of the bike more pleasant. I see a lot of people struggle/fight through the water, raise their heart rate anaerobic, and just generally blow their race in the first discipline.

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Swim - Bike - Run the rest is just clothing changes.

This article suggests 13-14 strokes a lap- definitely need some glide in there.
http://www.ironman.com/triathlon/news/articles/2014/03/hip-technique-open-water-triathlon-swimming.aspx#axzz349rZKX8N

I think it really depends on your stroke and technique. Fix that and then we can talk about rhythm.

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Take a look at this thread.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...n_swimming_P5189076/

It really speaks a lot to what you should be focusing on first.

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I can easily do 8 strokes per length if I put a glide in, I typically do between 14 and 16 per length scm because that's where I'm most efficient. That's about 13-15 strokes scy. If I sprint, stroke count doesn't change, turnover just increases. When I was younger and fitter, 12 strokes per length scy was the norm. No glide.

Also, I'm not tall and I don't have exceptionally long arms or anything.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

If you're not used to high turnover, it will wear you out and burn through your glycogen prematurely.
If you're not used to long glide, you'll go really slow and torque your muscles into premature failure.
Race what you do in practice. If you want to race differently, practice differently.

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+1. As an aside, chop seems to be much less friendly to strokes that have a lot of glide.

One of the good swimmers on this board once said something like, "If you're not pulling, you're slowing down."

I'm comfortable in the water. I'm just not comfortable when I run up on the beach and find out that everyone else has already left T1.

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Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
Which is probably why I was registering 59.67mi as I rolled into T2.

A longer stroke does not necessarily mean more glide. Gerry Rodrigues advocates a higher turnover in OWS, and somewhere on here is a thread about it (I think born out of a TI discussion IIRC)

John

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Just swim. Don't over think it. Do what you've been doing in training. Don't change now. The offseason is the time to make big adjustments to technique.
Problem with gliding ( over gliding), especially with new swimmers, is tendency to create dead space. You always want to propel your body forward

Look at the benefits -- plenty of strippers available, easy to find your bike as it is alone in the rack, privacy in the changing tent, etc.

My 75% statement should say comfortable and be able to swim in a straight line. Once you have those then coaching and masters for speed make a lot of sense.

I'm pretty lazy and find swimming boring so I'll stick being a comfortable straight-line swimmer and leave the speed to the fishies.

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Swim - Bike - Run the rest is just clothing changes.

So I have been playing with this as a new, not good swimmer.

From what I can tell, the best people in tri swims do very fast strokes, no glide.

However in both OW and Pool, I do better with a tiny bit of glide. Going to keep trying a higher stroke rate, but not much luck yet.

One interesting take on this is:

http://www.swimsmooth.com/ape-index-swimming.html


as an ape index of +3, I may just be better suited for long slower strokes.. if your ape index is 0 or -3, you really want to get the stroke rate up ASAP (but in practice, not on race day)

As many others have said: your race is in 2 days, so forget about stroke rate (insert joke here) and just swim.
When you work on your swimming, you will need to think a bit about rhythm and see what works best for you.
Chances are you're not particularly buoyant and you aren't a swimmer with long arms, short legs, long torso,
very flexible ankles and shoulders and thus it makes little sense for you to try to copy Phelps or Thorpe. So you
will want to find out a stroke rate that leaves you somewhat relaxed in the water, allows you to maintain momentum
(e.g. not sink between stroke), and is comfortable for you in terms of rhythm. Without a coach on deck, that will
take some experimenting.

You can offset this with an excellent kick. The typical long distance per stroke college kid is doing 10x100 on 1:30 SCY as a kick set.

The typical late-onset triathlete swimmer with inflexible ankles and shit for a kick doesn't have this option.

I like Brett Suttons 3 Rs: Rhythm, Relax, Range(distance per stroke). Everyone is different, so find what works for you

Indeed. I didn't even bother discussing kicking just because for about 90% of triathletes, it's just never going to be a real option.
They don't spend enough time in the water, have started swimming late, and have ankles made of adamantium. So, you can
get a bit of propulsion with a 2 beat kick or maybe 4 for a few, and definitely get some balance in the water, but not a lot more.

If you are swimming correctly, you won't be gliding. As for blanket statements as to what type of stroke tempo is best for OWS that is a very individual determination that includes conditions on the race course.

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That just means that it'll be easier to get your bike out. :)

I'm an abysmal swimmer...I'm usually good for freestyle for the first 50m and then switch to sidestroke for the duration. I'm deathly afraid of open water, but I force myself to do it. And yes, I always start outside and far away from other stronger swimmers, because I don't want to bugger up their race.

I have tried to swim OW like I do in the pool, and it just doesn't work. Between fighting the wetsuit (yes, I know, I need more OW practice), the chop, and trying not to drown in general, I just don't feel I can focus on stroke technique in OW.

Probably not very helpful to the OP, but that's my experience.

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- John
"Have courage, and be kind."

So what are we doing tomorrow morning workout wise?

Not to be cute, but we are going to swim hard. Specifically, it will probably be a USRPT inspired workout that has repeats of 100 or less.

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^^^^^This.

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What they said...I'm not even going to try to make this a backdoor brag. I am a fast swimmer, and I don't care what you want to call it, just keep your damn elbows up.

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