Help me fight the city hall re: municipal swimming pool

Jul 30, 15 10:10

Post #1 of 31 (4927 views)

So here's the situation. My town (Burbank, CA) has a municipal pool (Verdugo). Due to the drought in California, the local city council has decreed that the pool is to be covered at night (between 8:30pm and 5:30am). A pretty questionable decision in my mind, since there is little evaporation happening at night. However, what it does is prevent the pool from cooling effectively, and towards the end of the day the water temps hit the mid 80s. It feels like a bath tub. None of the council member swim in the pool, so they clearly care only about the water bills.

I want to go to the next city council and present the argument against covering the pool on the grounds of

1. night time evaporation being non existent - and I am guessing that this prevents precipitation from getting into the pool as well, which does not help.
2. swimming fast in such warm water being dangerous to health - I found a few studies showing that the ideal temps should be in the lower to mid 70s.

Anything else I can do to push my case? By the way, if anyone from the area is on ST, pm me - maybe we can head to the council meeting together.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

Last edited by: alex_korr: Jul 30, 15 11:20

Re: Help me fight the city hall re: municipal swimming pool [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 15 10:17

Post #2 of 31 (4901 views)

#firstworldproblems

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Re: Help me fight the city hall re: municipal swimming pool [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 15 10:19

Post #3 of 31 (4892 views)

Is this pool used for swimming only, or do they do water aerobics for the elderly in there as well. You'll never get the warm water issue to fly if the old people like your pool.

Ian

Re: Help me fight the city hall re: municipal swimming pool [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 15 10:22

Post #4 of 31 (4875 views)

I'm no scientist but I'm pretty sure there is significant evaporation at night when you have warm pool water and cooler air temps. If you are say, living in an area with minimal fresh water and experiencing an epic drought, they probably are on the right track. It might only be a couple hundred gallons a week but everyone has to do their part. And don't pee in that pool, you might be drinking out of it someday ;-)

You should move to Michigan. We have plenty of fresh water. 20% of the world's standing fresh water right on tap!

Re: Help me fight the city hall re: municipal swimming pool [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 15 10:26

Post #5 of 31 (4855 views)

Not to sure if this would be helpful, but I found some information on the evaporation from unoccupied pools. I am not sure the size of the pool or what the average temperatures of the space air, the water, or the space air relative humidity is during the night, but assuming 80F, you could probably assume the lowest amount of evaporation would be 0.1 kilograms per hour per square meter.

Re: Help me fight the city hall re: municipal swimming pool [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 15 10:36

Post #6 of 31 (4823 views)

According to the chart at my pool the water temperature is always 82ish degrees

I don't see the problem.

Re: Help me fight the city hall re: municipal swimming pool [tkos] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 15 10:37

Post #7 of 31 (4818 views)

tkos wrote:

Is this pool used for swimming only, or do they do water aerobics for the elderly in there as well. You'll never get the warm water issue to fly if the old people like your pool.

This. I live in a community with a clubhouse and pool. I swim there several times a week and they keep the heater/water at 80 degrees. There are a few high school swimmers that go whose parents have complained that 80 degrees is too hot and dangerous, but there are many people that use the pool for aerobics and exercise as part of their therapy. Because of that, our HOA board will not lower the temp under 80. I'm in Sacramento and we've been over 100 degrees this week and the water this morning was 83 degrees. I know they keep the cover on in the winter and spring, but I'm not sure what they do in the summer. Regardless, it's always between 80-83 degrees this time of year. But, 80 feels good when I'm swimming and the air temp is in the low 30s.

Re: Help me fight the city hall re: municipal swimming pool [tkos] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 15 10:58

Post #8 of 31 (4750 views)

Yep, we've got that in spades - the older folks and the weight loss crowd doing water zumba. However, they represent maybe 1/3 of the pool usage - the rest is the masters teams, kids swim team, regular swimmers, etc.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

Last edited by: alex_korr: Jul 30, 15 11:19

Re: Help me fight the city hall re: municipal swimming pool [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 15 11:06

Post #9 of 31 (4721 views)

Best of luck to you it's a tough battle with city pools. My city has cowered to the 80 year old crowd who want it in the mid to high 80's when they use the pool for 90 minutes in the morning for coffee talk and organized water jazzercise or whatever it is they do. Meanwhile there are 2 giant swim clubs, 2 Masters groups and tons of triathletes who lap swim from 530 am til close who suffer through the 85+ degree soup. The vast majority of the revenue put into that pool gets the least amount of attention.

Re: Help me fight the city hall re: municipal swimming pool [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 15 11:22

Post #10 of 31 (4647 views)

But they represent well over 60% of the people who vote these days.

Ian

Re: Help me fight the city hall re: municipal swimming pool [tigerpaws] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 15 11:29

Post #11 of 31 (4621 views)

And they have the most free time and complain the most.

Charity is injurious unless it helps the recipient to become independent of it. John D. Rockefeller Sr.

Re: Help me fight the city hall re: municipal swimming pool [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 15 11:31

Post #12 of 31 (4617 views)

Simply ask them. If they say no then the fight is on. There's only two ways to fight a city hall.

1) Get the county council or someone in state legislature on your side. Tee-hee. They got more money than the city hall.

2) Contact media and shame them in public.

Anything else will just cost you money and frustration.

In your particular scenario, you can't use facts, because your facts are science based. Someone there will use junk science to refute you and then you really won't get anywhere.

Re: Help me fight the city hall re: municipal swimming pool [tigerpaws] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 15 11:37

Post #13 of 31 (4597 views)

Pools for competitive swimming are typically 78-82� F. I prefer 80 for workout and 78 for competition.
Covering pools is typically down year round in California, unless the summer expected low is above the low setpoint or the pool has overheated.
Covering has mostly been to keep heating bills down; though water loss can be a smaller consideration.
This is for a well managed pool.
I've worked at private, school district, city and university pools that all did this. All in California.
Bureaucrats do get in the way of this.
At the OP's pool in Burbank the pool will probably overheat most summer days. Pool management needs to make sure they are not adding heat by running the heater when the pool will just overheat later in the day, and ensure that the filtration system and pumps do not add heat to the system, and our not run more than necessary. Other cooling methods might be undertaken as well. (most involve wasting water)

Unfortunately, in the hysterical responses to our current drought - you are not going to win this battle over what is correct to do in this situation.

Re: Help me fight the city hall re: municipal swimming pool [Rumpled] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 15 11:40

Post #14 of 31 (4582 views)

I swim in 78-79 every day it's pure deliciousness.....heaters and chillers for year around yumminess. I left the city swamp hole 2 years ago. If I'm traveling and have to get in the soup temps I make it a 1500 drill day it makes me nauseous to go hammer down in that stuff.

Last edited by: tigerpaws: Jul 30, 15 11:42

Re: Help me fight the city hall re: municipal swimming pool [tigerpaws] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 15 13:05

Post #15 of 31 (4480 views)

To be honest and to the point, your neck of the woods is in a drought and SHOULD be doing everything they can to conserve water and you SHOULD accept the insignificant little cost of warmer water. You'll lose, don't waste your time.

Re: Help me fight the city hall re: municipal swimming pool [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 15 13:29

Post #16 of 31 (4434 views)

I would be happy they even filled the pool, based on the current drought situation.

Re: Help me fight the city hall re: municipal swimming pool [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 15 13:40

Post #17 of 31 (4387 views)

Aside from the drought, I'll also add that you'll almost always lose the fight to the senior citizens who want the pool hot/warm.

Nothing against them, but they tend to be much more vocal as well as vigorous defenders of their turf since they tend to use their pools like home territory. As opposed to us younger triathletes - even if it's inconvenient, we're much more mobile and likely to just pack up and swim somewhere else if it's that bad.

Re: Help me fight the city hall re: municipal swimming pool [lightheir] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 15 13:59

Post #18 of 31 (4337 views)

But the city will lose revenue if the younger swimmers pack up and leave. There's no way they will collect enough revenue from just the zumba classes.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

Re: Help me fight the city hall re: municipal swimming pool [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 15 14:01

Post #19 of 31 (4331 views)

alex_korr wrote:

But the city will lose revenue if the younger swimmers pack up and leave. There's no way they will collect enough revenue from just the zumba classes.

They can have a hot pool for kids and old folks. Kids swimming pulls in good revenue, but def doesn't need a cool pool.

It's the people who train hard in the pool (us) that they couldn't care less about. We're definitely the small minority of pool users, and we're also the most mobile of the bunch with least loyalty if a pool just sucks.

Re: Help me fight the city hall re: municipal swimming pool [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 15 14:06

Post #20 of 31 (4314 views)

$$$ talks.

Seriously.

Tell them it costs them more to employ someone who is covering the pool, than the hit on the water bill (doesn't work if they make the first/last users uncover/cover).

Or tell them about the additional wear and tear of the pool covers.

alex_korr wrote:

But the city will lose revenue if the younger swimmers pack up and leave. There's no way they will collect enough revenue from just the zumba classes.

Re: Help me fight the city hall re: municipal swimming pool [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 15 14:29

Post #21 of 31 (4275 views)

Even those with first world problems deserve support.

I suspect the labor-saving argument about not covering won't hold water, but there may be something there. The cooler the water, the less it evaporates. Keeping it uncovered at night will help save water during the day.

Good luck. City Hall can be a formidable foe. This reminds me of a quote from Mark Twain � 'Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.'

Jed

"If you want to ride by the Force, you had better make sure that you are a real Jedi." - FastYellow (6/13/2011)

Re: Help me fight the city hall re: municipal swimming pool [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 15 14:45

Post #22 of 31 (4248 views)

Maybe you need to rethink your priorities? In the inimitable words of Spock "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". I'm a Cali native and upon a recent visit I was mortified to see the toll that drought has taken on my home town. Google the impact and you'll see there are some pretty dire consequences that I'm sure most reasonable people would agree trump your a). desire to swim in a nicer water temperature or b). find a gym to join with an indoor pool.

�Bloom wherever you are planted"

Re: Help me fight the city hall re: municipal swimming pool [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 15 14:58

Post #23 of 31 (4236 views)

I'm pretty sure evaporation occurs at night too, but to a lesser extent.

I'd tell the City not to worry, as you'll do your best to replenish whatever evaporates at night by always starting your swim with a full bladder.

Re: Help me fight the city hall re: municipal swimming pool [K-DUB] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 15 15:01

Post #24 of 31 (4226 views)

Hey - if the city of 100k residents wants to stop watering its lawns every day, ban the movie studios from doing the same, while having a lush tropical landscaping all around, and shut down the golf course - I am all for it. Until then I think that I can stake some claim to the recycled water they use to fill the pool.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

Re: Help me fight the city hall re: municipal swimming pool [Rumpled] [ In reply to ]

Jul 30, 15 15:07

Post #25 of 31 (4212 views)

At the OP's pool in Burbank the pool will probably overheat most summer days. Pool management needs to make sure they are not adding heat by running the heater when the pool will just overheat later in the day, and ensure that the filtration system and pumps do not add heat to the system, and our not run more than necessary.

Herein lies the argument to raise. You're not going to win the water conservation argument. I'd just be resigned to the fact that the pool wil be covered at night. But the argument to raise is energy conservation. That they can kill two birds with one stone -- allegedly save water and reduce their heating and other costs.

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