Excellent to hear! We signed up early for the full to take advantage of that pricing. Hard to beat 200 or 250 for a full.

I didn't mind too much being alone on the course. First, we shared it with the 1/2 distance, so for the run's first lap and part of the second (out of four), there were still competitors. Then, there were the aid stations and most of volunteers were super friendly. The photo crew was great, too. So you're out there doing your thing a lot more than in a busy race but it's not bad. Especially if you already expect that going in.

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http://powerful-problem-solving.com

I have a lot of races I do that I there are no folks around me on the bike or run. I do 100% of my training by myself. So, no big deal. I am racing against the clock and
my goals anyways.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

No way a smart person could ever not signup early for those amazing prices!!!!

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Check the HITS website for the new Hudson Valley courses at Williams Lake. Williams Lake is a great place for a race and they have a really good bike course for the first time since the first year at Hunter. This location should really lift the HITS status in our area.

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''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

lake havasu was one of the best races they had (conditions, venue, course (minus bike) ). A real big loss, likely the city gave permit problems. still they insist on palms springs in Dec. worst time of the year, as the water is 50* with sometimes blizzard like wind/rain

I liked the bike course at Havasu! Those ridiculous hills at the turnaround? My favorite part.

The run course was strange and there's my only complaint with HITS - remember how we had to run through the campground? Some people ran it clockwise, some counterclockwise (I'm talking the 70.3). There was no one telling us which way to go. The woman in my AG who beat me by 10 seconds was behind me on the bike (I passed her on the second loop), then she finished the run before me but I never saw her pass me on the run. I'm certain she didn't purposefully cheat - but the campground section was so weird and vaguely marked that it would have been easy to cut a whole section of it and not really understand what the hell you did. I camped with a friend in the campground the night before and saw the guys out there marking the course and we talked to them - so I knew exactly where to go. But during the race there was no one out there directing anyone - there was one aid station in the campground and those volunteers weren't directing anyone either.

But that's a minor issue, and the gal who beat me is a badass in general so I don't care about that either. I would easily go back and do another HITS race. I like small, homey scenes like that.

I've done three HITS half races (Marble Falls TX 2014, Marble Falls TX 2015, Grand Junction CO 2016), I've done Ironman Texas once, and I've done a bunch of crowded and big city olympic races. The differences are dramatic.

The HITS series is struggling, and I think they're cutting back as a result. Marble Falls got cancelled after 2015. Grand Junction got cancelled after 2016 apparently. Many of their races hardly draw enough participants to remain viable, if they do at all. And as a result, they cut back on the race support. They can't fund some really important parts of race organization.

I want:

* Competitors (to compare myself against, since it's not just me and clock, as every day and course is different)
* Supporters cheering along the course (to keep me powered up, to keep me from feeling desperate)
* Frequent aid stations (to keep me from bonking)
* Properly measured courses (because too short and I haven't conquered the advertised challenge; too long, and people get surly)
* Adequately marked/metered courses (because with just a lap watch and no GPS, I need to measure my pace, and I can't do it well without markings at each mile)

All those things come with an Ironman-branded race, and they don't really happen with the withering HITS series.

I'm pretty sure the swim course at Grand Junction this year was too short.

And the people with the GPS watches were pretty riled up that the out-and-back for the run (2 laps for half, 4 laps for full) was 7.1 miles rather than 6.55. The only distance marked on the course was a backwards two-mile sign that I didn't trust.

To do a full distance with HITS takes much greater psychological strength than an Ironman race does. Sometimes they only have a few dozen participants out there. Talk about lonely! Some of those people are soldiering on after dark, alone, without proper aid stations, and without people to cheer them on? I tip my hat to these people. More honestly, as I drive home from my half with my family, I cheer them from the car window, with a tear in my eye, feeling a bit of that solitary pain.

I'm also disappointed they lost Mark, their prior race director. That guy was inspiring, supportive, funny, hard working, etc. The guy who did Grand Junction this year (and not the only race director in the series) was kind of a drag, and seemed to be none of what Mark had been.

And yet, I'll keep doing HITS races when the locations work for me.

I agree with everything you said. I never thought HITS long course races would last this long with such sparse participation. I hope it turns around for them.

Haha this was me. I just my first IM distance at Grand Junction this year. I'm not big on crowds so I actually loved this part especially once the full moon came out and the wind had mostly died down. The volunteer they had at each of the aid stations was awesome and super encouraging though. I'd totally do it again if they were still offering Grand Junction next year, but maybe I'll travel to one of their other locations instead.

Especially the guy manning the aid station at the midpoint of the run course (who you passed at approximately mile 1.5, 5.5, etc). He was the guy with long hair, a big smile, and music playing. I think I'll remember him for a long time!

I'm glad you had a good experience, and I applaud you for your race.

I finished the full in GJ this weekend also.

I was very happy with my 1:11 swim time but I agree the swim was probably short. There were some very fast times posted.

I got 25.8 miles for the run. That guy at the 1.5 mile aid station was the best. He would walk out to me with 2 cups of water every time. The run didn't feel that lonely till my last lap (when the sun went down).

Lol your starred points you dont think ironman screwed up at some races? Especially distance part. Its sad people need to pay for fans at the finish to cheer them on for barely making it in cut off time...

Hell yes, that guy was amazing. Aid station volunteers, you the real MVP.

What? The only people who appreciate having others cheering on the course are those who are barely making it in cut off time?


What? Just because Ironman doesn't always get it all right, somehow they're in the same league as less corporate races that almost never get it all right?

I think that for 4 times as much dough for entry, and 59 times the participants, IM branded don't have the excuse to screw up, ever.

I'm looking forward to doing the full HITS I signed up for, and possibly 2 or 3 others, all for less than an mdot race

I'm sure they don't provide you the opportunity to buy a proposal package starting at $800!

I applaud you for the mental tenacity it takes to complete what is essentially a solo, catered training event. But a self supported full is much cheaper than HITS and equally as meaningful...so why even pay for HITS? For most age groups, and especially the older age groups, a full HITS cannot be described as a race because there is no one else to race. I know I can complete the distance so why pay even $50 to be #1 of 1? I would rather be #7 of 60 or so in my AG at an IM. If you desire competition, and the meaning that competing against your peers gives, then there aren't a lot of other options besides mdot.

unless you are trying to go to worlds or KQ... HITS is even more perfect for you.

To proudly show off my first place medal? Your argument seems to be that anyone not on the podium at a WTC IM should do HITS. We all have different motivations, but besides the money savings, why? Here are a few of the reasons I prefer WTC:

- more people in my AG. While I may not be racing head to head, I'm always cognizant that any failure to maintain my pace or any mistakes will reflect in a lower place. For HITS, it would be, why kill myself when all I have to do to "win" my AG is finish.
- common goal and shared sacrifice with a couple of thousand other athletes
- in general, more professionally run event, and one that feels like an event. As an analogy, WTC is the NFL and HITS is backyard pick up game.
- many more choices and exciting destination events. HITS has a few good locations, but really cannot compete with WTC's worldwide offerings.
- and yes, WTC has more 'status'. Another analogy - Really, would you rather tell your friends you did the NYC marathon or the Tallahassee marathon?

Full disclosure - I have not raced a HITS full (nor would I) but I imagine these are the advantages:

- contact free swim
- no drafting on the bike
- common cause with a very small group of athletes
- personal attention when you come through the aid station (as the only one at that time)
- near certainty of "winning" your AG in the upper divisions

Of course, any of these HITS benefits can be achieved at no cost in your own self-declared world championship, self supported SOLO-MAN event - with no entry fee!

Fortunatly I'm 42, which seems to be one of the largest AGs in terms of numbers so I at least have a chance of finishing off the podium in most HITS races, and as has been stated by others, I look at it as competing against the entire field, not my AG, and that field will be 50-100, so there is plenty of competition there for my slow ass. Hell, I will be happy if I can beat my wife, as she is freakin fast.

As far as the cost difference between an unsupported solo self effort and hits? I wonder how much it would cost to have a caterer stand alongside a road for 17 hrs? I'd wager it'd be a wee bit more than 200 clams...

Besides that, you get:

1) aid stations: you don't have to worry about bringing food, etc
2) timing: nice to get splits on the distance and not have to worry about locking your bike in the car, house, etc. Or leave it on the beach while you swim, etc
3) course: *most* hits races have cops at intersections so no stopping at lights like in training day.
4) mentality: this is a biggie. Race days are different than traing days. The focus, etc is just different for me at least.
5) venue: sure, I can do a solo 140.6 at home, but to do one in other places is a whole lot more planning, mapping, and logistically much tougher. Having that all set up for me so I can just show up, do my thing for 10, 11, or 17 hrs and then bail is worth the dough.

I can list more reasons why It's worth 200, but I think you get the point.

Let's look at the other side for a second.

MDOT: EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARS TO PROPOSE.... Are you saying that is a GOOD value? MDOT charges what they do because people buy in to there being something magical, but the real magic is that they actually convinced people there was magic in the brand. There isn't. Simple as that.

Vineman is still Vineman, but now costs 2.5 times as much. MDOT races may have a couple more timing mats, and a little better food, and a few more people hanging around the cheering areas, but the races are still no different than a catered solo effort. I guess all that competition at MDOT races makes it easier to draft on the bike because you end up packed on to the course, but besides that? Meh.

If HITS is overpriced at 200, then there is no way MDOT races aren't overpriced at 800.

The sad thing is that unless more people wake up ti this fact and start supporting independant races, MDOT won't be 800, it'll be 1000 or 1600 or 2000 per race, because they will be the only game left.

My wife and I will still do an MDOT or two in the future because they are the only option in some areas we want to travel to to race (Madison would be a good example), but given the option, we will continue to support the independant guys.

Dave - we just have different perspectives. Yours is 100% right - for you. Mine is 100% right for me. But your perspective is held by a distinct minority. Now let me add a few more comments:

- Does Ironman provide distinct value for $700-$800? If you've had even the most rudimentary training in economics then the answer is ABSOLUTELY else they would have gone out of business long ago instead of having expanded while HITS is contracting. Tens of thousands of people do Ironman each year compared to just tens doing HITS. The market has spoken loudly.

- Without seeing HITS books, I would bet the series, and especially the HIM and FULL options are a business failure. I believe HITS is/was nothing more than a speculative investment by the profitable horse related industry that is going sour and its not clear how much longer the owners will subsidize this loser. Instead of seeing Mdot as overpriced, you should view HITS as a loss leader and if it suits your purposes, then take advantage while it exists.

- If I were to do a self supported Ironman, I would drive 5 mins from my house to the pool I train in regularly and swim 2.4 miles, drive home to T1, bike my typical IM training loop, stopping at gas stations as needed for refills, hit T2 at the house and go run whatever loops I felt like until I had 26.2 on my Garmin. Job done, #1 of 1, and the only cost would be what I spent at the gas stations. No caterer req'd. But my objective is to finish and finish well against my peers. Logistically, this is the simplest way to complete one because there is no travel, no hotel, no transition check-in, no chips, just pure completion of the distance. But why would I that ... exactly the same question I would ask myself about doing HITS...why do it when it has the same feel of just me swimming alone, just me biking alone, and just me running alone all day.

- I live in FL, am currently M59 and looked up the results for Ocala and Naples, both a short driving distance for me. Ocala had 10 finishers, none in M55-59. Naples was huge at 50 whole finishers and amazingly, 4 guys M55-59 but not one of them under 14 hours. I completed Ironman Cozumel, having come down with pneumonia 2 nights before, faster than that despite puking several times before the race started and several times after, while feeling like anchors were tied to my lungs (not recommended).

- I will, however, pay for a race to provide a catered training experience when I want to push harder. For example, I've done the GFT full aqua bike 3 times followed by a 4-6 mi transition run on my own. GFT full gets more athletes than most HITS but still feels like a ghost town towards the end of the bike. So while I will support them for my training, I won't pay to go the whole distance for a race that feels doesn't feel like a race.

- I hope indies continue -- especially at the HIM distance -- but indie full distance races in the US are so poorly supported in total across NA, that their complete elimination is unlikely to affect the market price for WTC. That is a more a function of total demand which is currently contracting across NA, but not the rest of the world. The loss of HITS will not result in the increases you postulated without causing a significant reduction in demand and loss of revenue/margin. WTC saw that with IMNYC #2 and quickly pulled the plug and refunded the entry fees. There is a price ceiling and it is not driven by the independent competition, which for all practical purposes is already nonexistent in the US at the full distance.

really you are in no place to comment if you have not done the race. professionalism is similar. difference is that you arent paying extra fee to get you are an ironcheeseball headman announced at the finish. and since you are over focused on their long distance part, the olympic and sprint races fill up very well.

My comments are reserved for the HITS full.... not an over focus, that is simply all I care about. Others have already spoken on this forum about what HITS lacks professionally. But WTC has made errors too. The comment you highlighted about my backyard analogy speaks more to the event atmosphere than to the professional execution of the race. I am no fan of Mike Reilly but some are. To each their own and the numbers speak volumes. Half my IMs are out of country where HITS is a nonentity.

I did one Hits race in Ocala. I did the 70.3. I am not a fan of their races.

I do hear better things about the shorter distances.

I like the idea of supporting independent races but they have to deliver a quality product and outside of the amazing transition set up ... I didn't have that experience with HITS.