I would do bright angel down just because it gets so crowded as the day goes on with mule trains, etc. the north rim is much less developed and relaxed and the trail is not as crowded. it is just a better experience which will help when you are getting tired.

Thanks. That is helpful for sure. So you would do roundtrip Bright Angel - North Kaibab - Bright Angel?

I did it a couple of years ago in September with my brother. It is long day. We planned it as a run/hike as well, but it took us longer than planned. We hiked more than we ran, as some of the trail was simply not run-able and running out of the canyon was outside of our ability.

South Kaibab is steeper but shorter. Bright Angel is better supported. Some folks descend one and ascend the other, but that added a few miles at the top and a logistical issue, so we did Bright Angel down and up. And we really lucked out with the weather.

As far as planning, first and foremost, be flexible and pay attention to the weather. We planned a two day window. It was perfect the day we did it, it rained like hell for several hours the next day. It is going to be hot at the bottom in May, but it may be cool at the top, especially the North Rim. The weather and the terrain will dictate your plan. So plan some flexibility. We started at about 4 am and got a good bit of the descent done before the sun was up. The darkness, even with headlamps, slowed us down a bit, which we were both okay with. It was warm at the near the river and the ascent up the North Rim is a bitch.

A good map recon is essential to plan your water refill points and how much food and water to carry. We carried Nathan trail running packs with about 3L of water. It was more than enough for the day we had. On a hotter day, I might consider adding a water bottle to that. Water is plentiful on the south side and at the bottom, but limited once you leave Phantom Ranch until you get to Cottonwood Springs/Pump House/Roaring Springs area and then again until you near the North Rim. We brought all the calories we needed and did not depend upon resupply at Phantom Ranch (we were there before they opened in the morning). On the North Rim there is plenty of water, but food is a couple of miles from the trail head. We had headlamps and small handheld flashlights as a backup. We also brought a change of socks as your feet will get wet with multiple stream crossings. My brother uses hiking poles when he hikes so he brought those. We also carried some basic survival/first aid stuff in case SHTF.

We had a hotel room outside the park and when into the park early, parking near the Bright Angel lodge.

It was a hell of an experience, far more rewarding than any Ironman. Huge day even at the very conservative pace we did it. It was incredible to see the sun rise (and set) in the canyon.

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Suffer Well.

yes that is how I would do it. try to be on bright angel during the off hours. when I did it I slept out just east of the the bright angel trailhead and got an early start.

This is super helpful. I am really looking forward to it. Planning on wearing a 12L hydration vest and carry 2.5L of fluid. We are going when the water should be turned on, so hopefully this will be enough. Was planning, bars, gels, etc for nutrition and salt tables. As for clothes, thinking light weight wind jacket, hat, gloves and arm warmers. Other then that, trekking poles, headlamps, blister care and camera. Any major item I have left out? Trying to be very minimal, but not stupid.

South Kaibab does not have any water stops. It is a very long climb out in the middle of the afternoon without water stops and almost no shade. That is why the traditional route is down SK and back out BA. So if you start on the South Side that is the way to go.

I ran it last October. My advise is watch the weather, it can be cool on top and super hot on the bottom. Went late October and it still was 97 degrees at PHR on the way back. Second, piece of advise is start 30-60 minutes before the sun comes up, this avoids mule trains and lots of people plus you get a jump start on a very long day. The road to the SK trailhead is "closed" but you can have someone drop you off there if it is before the buses are running. Pretty much expect that the effort is going to be like doing a 50 miler. Don't expect cell coverage, even at the North Rim trailhead.

..

I brought some real food as I tend to get tired of bars and gels.

A change of socks was worth 3 times their weight, other than that I brought the same clothes as you have listed, but never used the jacket or gloves. They were more of a just in case.

I used my phone as a camera, but there is little to no cell reception so I had it in airplane mode the whole time.

I hope the "we" means you are going with someone else, plenty of folks the first 2-3 miles of each rim, not many after that. Doing with with someone else is prudent.

Seems like you are on the right track. Best of luck.

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Suffer Well.

I was thinking about doing this in April, but one of my "A" ultras is coming up in late April so I don't want to go R2R2R just a couple weeks out from my 50 miler. But, I would love to go just once across, maybe South to North. It would be a perfect last long run 1.5-2 weeks out before race day.

Logistically, is there any way to do this solo as far as getting transport back? Looks like it's a 200 mile drive from rim to rim, but maybe there's another way?

I did R2R with my daughter last October. As one poster said it was more fullfilling than finishing an Ironman (for me). We started north rim and hiked to south using the Bright Angels trail once we crossed the river. We walked the entire route. Just checked Strava, 24.2 miles, 7hr37min moving time, 9700 ft of elevation. We too got really lucky with the weather; overcast all day. 30s at dawn on North rim, no water available till Phantom Ranch (apparently water line breaks often). We both only had small camel backs. Best advice I got for the trip was to buy hiking/trekking poles. They defintely save your legs. I came to the conclusion that you either need to be young (my daughter) or very fit (me, after 2 IMs that summer) to do this in one day. I want to go back someday and try running R2R2R now that I know the layout. Someday......

Oh yeah, one other thing that I worried about going in to this hike. I heard there was some exposure on the North rim trail. I'm not fond of heights and was anxious about this. Turned out to be no problem at all for me. OTOH, my daugher and I were both freaked out crossing the bridge over the river. It's one of those where you can see through the bottom. At that point I just focused on the canyon wall on the other side and made tracks with my daughter screaming behind me :)

Thanks for the information. Very helpful. Stupid question, but did you record with a 910xt? Do you remember how much battery was left. Trying to decide if I should get a Fenix 3 for this as I really want the altitude to understand how much more I need to climb upon exiting. Just worried I won't have enough battery with the 910.

310XT lasted the entire hike.

Definitely BA on the way back up, especially in May. SK down is faster but BA isn't terribly bad either. As mentioned, get going early to avoid the mule trains and to hopefully provide yourself with enough time to grab some lemonade at Phantom Ranch on the way back—shoot for a 4-4:30am start if you can. I took a Fenix 2 with sampling set to every 20s and not sure what it was but I had issues with it. Pretty sure it was just loss of signal causing a shut down but it played difficult to boot back up and get going again. As a result the data ended up very skewed, something like 54 miles of total running which is just a tad bit high ;)

There's a phenomenal facebook group "GrandCanyon R2R2R Run!" that has some very solid information, especially water shut off updates. Check it out.

We are doing it in 2 weeks and your new thread was a welcome sight seeing others have done and their comments, Someone mentioned parking..can you park at the South entrance at 4:30 in the morning? Or?Any big NO NO's to think about?

Plenty of parking at BA trail head. If you're heading down SK there's a small lot but your best bet is to park at the Visitor's Center and take the free shuttle which first departs at 4:30am. Take a water filter just in case of an outage, Sawyer mini is a great one. Don't try and pass a mule train until told so by the guide.

Thanks, great tip of the shuttle!

Neal - they used to do this as an organized pack, sort of do the r2r2r in 24 hours get a t-shirt, until they were shut down by the Park Service maybe 15 years ago. It transformed into a web site which may be of significant benefit if you haven't already seen it. http://www.r2r2r.org/

Good luck, it's on my list...but I doubt I'll ever get around to it.

jealously,

John

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John H. Post, III, MD
Orthopedic Surgeon
Charlottesville, VA

I did it on Memorial weekend 2 years ago. Totally amazing. Three of us went down South Kaibab and up BA to get the best of both. We started at 3 or 4 am and it took us 18 hours (that's on the long side). We had other people drop us off in the AM and pick us up in the PM. Definitely be flexible. Not to jinx you, but be prepared that it "just may not happen" that day, and be smart. Decide beforehand what will happen if one person in your group just ain't got it that day (IDK if you are 2, 3, or 4, but figure it out beforehand who will go back with who, etc.). It is well traveled, but their ain't no SAG to get you outta there. I would recommend a water bottle that filters any water 99.9999% pure, etc. At least 1 for your group. The fresh water pipes are old, and they burst at one one point on this occasion and I literally got the last water out of the spigot at one of the stops on the return trip. There is access to streams and such if you have a filter. Also, I would recommend collapsible poles, at least one set for the group so you can trade off. They are light, and worth the minimal extra weight IMO. Also, if possible, keep an eye on the time and try to hit the Phantom Ranch canteen on the way back. We missed it by minutes, and I was pissed and it mentally messed with me. It's not crucial bu helpful. Again, it is about being flexible. Once you are down in the canyon, it is very runnable. Enjoy!

My son and I did R2R2R this past October. We started at our campsite in the Mather campground at 4:00 am. and had a warm up run to the South Rim trailhead. We had the trail to ourselves until we got to Phantom Ranch. We returned up Bright Angel and then took a cab from the lodge to the campground. If you have someone waiting for you, add 2-3 hours to your expected return time to avoid the "Where the hell are they ?" drama and associated tears. We carried 2.5 litres of water and a water filter. We did use the water filter once as the pipes were broken the day we ran . We did go the café/store on the North Rim for coke and chips but missed the store at Phantom Ranch by 15 minutes. Enjoy the day and roll with the bad patches. It was the best adventure you can have in a day.

I did R2R from North to South a few years back. The North rim is much better in my opinion. It's a lot quieter and more beautiful with all the trees and wildlife. We drove because we had a 'driver' that drove back - but I think there's a shuttle/tour service you can pay for a ride. I don't have any info on that. R2R wasn't that bad - the only tough part is the last few miles up, but if you're close to your 50 I'm sure you're in better shape then I was.

For the OP - it seems like you've gotten a ton of good info so I dont have a lot to add logistically. All I would say is make sure you stop and appreciate it. Watching the sunrise while descending the North Rim was hands down the most incredible moment of my life. There are some miles before you get to Phantom Ranch (coming from the north rim) where you're running along a river with rock walls 100ft high on either side. Pretty awesome.

Enjoy - I wish I was coming with!

Neal, if your on facebook check out, benedict dugger, he has excellent info on r2r2r stuff

Neil,
I did rim2rim2rim last week. Epic, just epic. We started at 5am with lights on the South Kaibab trail, no need to worry about the mules going down here.the scenery was beyond imagination. We just cruised and took pictures. Many spots for this and the sun rise is insane.The store at Phantom Ranch was open yet but no big deal as we had plenty of food and only took on water. 7 more miles up at Cottonwood again just water and a nice bathroom (really) awaited us. Now when you run the next spot should be open for water but regardless always stop and top off your water, I didn't realize I was out of water on the climb to the North side till it was almost too late. The North Climb has good footing but is steeper and of course you want it to be over!Like Everset. Don't spend too much time there! The best is yet to come, steep downhill followed by about 10 miles gentle decent with a few punches thrown in before you back at Phantom Ranch, now you top off yet again with fluids as those last 7 or 10 miles will be rough! Expect almost 3-4ish hours to hike/try and run out if your normal and enjoying yourself, it's just that kind of climb/day! Well worth it as it's the only way out of the canyon!the canyon changes colors in the afternoon light so it's just as amazing on the way out though pictures will the last thing on your mind at this point! Note, the Wendy's closes before the McDonalds in town!!!! Don't think times, pace, just enjoy it. You'll wonder how people go faster or slower till you do it! Enjoy. PM if you want more details

Went last week with three friends. Absofreakinglutely amazing, and I agree, better than any IM finish. We stayed at Bright Angel Lodge and did the round trip from there, which I think was logistically best (no mules ahead of us). We started at a little after 5am and finished a little before 9pm, with breaks. The Bright Angel Lodge has a restaurant which is open until 10. This was so much more enjoyable than fast food or the emergency food I had in the car. The GC website lists which water stops/sources are on, and supposedly all are turned on as of 5/15.

Nuts/bolts of what I carried:



I'm the second one:



3L camelbak bladder in a pack
Small pack of survival supplies (space blanket in particular) (this is a BACKCOUNTRY hike/run, not a supported race)
Clothing appropriate for starting temp, and whatever it's going to be in the middle of the afternoon at the river (add 20-25 F to the predicted South Rim max temp.)
One more layer of clothing than you think you need JIC
30 or so scoops of tailwind, added to 2 bottles in a vest.
3 Clif bars
Extra socks.
Gaiters
Sunblock, sunglasses.
Hat.
Headlamp and backup headlamp. You NEED one that works.
Foot/blister care supplies. I'd recommend triple antibiotic ointment with anti-pain stuff. Money if you need.

Optional:
Trekking poles--I only used on descent/ascent of South Rim, but some use the whole way.
Hand held point and shoot camera that takes RAW images instead of just JPEG. If you care, get the depth of color/detail that allows you to take really great photos.
NSAIDS. If you would consider using.

Unless you've done a whole lot of vertical, particularly downhill, be cautious. Your legs can only handle so many eccentric contractions. We walked the first 4.1 miles toward the river and shed our extra stuff before starting to run, and still had a bit of a slogfest for the last couple miles. The two members of our party who had done 100 milers said that this run was every bit as hard, if not more.

Enjoy!!! Best run ever for every one of our party.

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Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

Everyone should put this on their "bucket list". I just completed R2R2R last weekend with a great group of guys. One of the most awesome days ever. The Grand Canyon has amazing beauty. We met so many other hikers and runners along the way and they were all so uplifting. A very positive experience. I wanna do it again already.