Is that pre-meditative murder?

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Las Vegas NV | IM KY 07

that's just horrible - and hard to understand.
almost seems like they knew each other - hard to imagine doing that to someone who you didn't already hate.

to make this even worse, an article today suggests the driver was a former Attorney General for the province:

http://www.thespec.com/...gNews/article/627070

More details

http://toronto.ctv.ca/...20090901?hub=Toronto

Including picture of the bike

From the shots of the bike and car it looks like it wasn't someone unfamiliar with riding in the city. That area is filled with high end hotels and restaurants/bars. Convertible with the top down at 10pm on a cold night dragging a guy down the sidewalk and then pulling into a 5 star hotel? Perhaps on his way back from "dinner"? I ain't sayin', I'm just sayin'.

This is likely a clash between two not uncommon character types in Toronto. It's a sad reminder that on a bike you are destined to lose badly in any confrontation (or even accident) so your best move is to avoid them.

Truly a shame that this is becoming a regular news feature here.

- Mike

Truly a shame. It seems as though there was a confrontation between the driver and the cyclist. The cylcist was holding onto the car as the driver was still driving. Sounds like the driver pushed him toward the curb to try and get him off his car. Then he it a mailbox or something.

Sounds like a real needless death and could have been avoided with cooler heads.

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NCCP certified Comp coach

Michael Bryant was a pretty high profile civil servant here in Ontario. I am sure we have all had altercations with vehicles - but man, what a senseless death. A reminder to all of us that cool heads should prevail even if as a rider you are in the right. No sense loosing your life out of principle.

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Michael Hay - helped on the journey by the great folks at ZiZU Optics, (for the custom fit), and Bialkowlski's TRYSPORT

Yeah, I think the cyclist must have chased after the car, and then it just got escalated or something. If it were me, I would have just let ANY incident go. I mean, I've already been cut off by a car, flipped into the air several times, fractured a few bones.. and i didnt chase after the car :)

so what you're saying is he's going to get the 'athlete/celebrity' treatment and get off with a slap on the wrist when he should have gotten a tazer to the ass.

Ha ha - not sure, politicians are not really treated like celebraties here in Ontario - more likely an opportunity for the public to really really drag him through the mud!!

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Michael Hay - helped on the journey by the great folks at ZiZU Optics, (for the custom fit), and Bialkowlski's TRYSPORT

THANK GOD!

This is a senseless and terrible tragedy.

We here think that it's always the car drivers "fault". However, I have seen cyclists go completely ballistic at the slightest provocation from car drivers and it just escalates from there. Car drivers are, of course, in many cases, no better. How else to describe the guy on the weekend who on a quiet country road in Muskoka nearly side swiped us, then gave us the one finger salute as he accelerated away and then for good measure tossed his cigerarette butt out the window. Nice!

I get the sense that a lot of people are living with a lot of anger and rage - at what I am not sure - but typically it's these sorts of people that are always one step from boiling completely over.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Agree, and until some more details come out, we won't find out what really happened. I think the cyclist must have uttered some sort of threats against the driver, and the driver got scared and panicked... I'm not defending either, but, as Syd said above, this could have been avoided if either or both had cooler heads.

And if the cyclist voluntarily held onto the guy's door (perhaps to get closer to him), then he's a retard. Just let it go... it's one thing if the cyclist's jacket/clothes/bike got accidentally hooked onto the car but if he's grabbing onto the car with intentions of confronting the driver... he's a pure idiot.

There has to be more to the story...from the Globe and Mail article the confrontation before the the drag and kill must have been pretty heated for this to happen.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/...rest/article1271489/

It is a reminder as a cyclist that even if you are wrong an angry driver can end it for you.
Prayers to the family of the deceased.
Andrew

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C'mon legs run faster!
Being fast on a crappy bike is cool
Fueled by Guinness, Tuborg, Anchor Steam and Creemore Springs

Regardless of whether the cyclist was an idiot they need to take the driver to the cleaner and slap him in jail...first thing you learn in driving school is that the license to drive is like the license to carry a revolver. In both cases you are in control of a tool that can kill people if used in the wrong way. I don't care what an unarmed cyclist was doing in hanging onto the guy's door. Doing what he did was murder....it's not like he can plead self defence (not to mention all his violations of the Ontario Highway Traffic Act).

Dev

Yeah, agree with this too. I was saying to my girlfriend that the exact moment that the cyclist hung onto the door, the driver should have stopped the car, and called the cops.

I have no idea what the driver's rationale is by 1) continuing to drive, and then 2) going to the opposite side of the road where oncoming traffic is to try to get some fixed objects to swipe the cyclist OFF his car.

It is a reminder as a cyclist that even if you are wrong an angry driver can end it for you.

. . . . .or car driver is wrong. The best practice is to always turn the other cheek. The outcome of car/bike confrontations is never good for the cyclist.

These days I just wave at these hotheads( in cars) and let them go. I figure that it must be a pretty miserable life they are leading with all that stress and rage that, just seeing a cyclist on the road, can send them into some form of rage!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

The sad thing is that in a moment of rage on the part of both parties, one guy is dead and hopefully another one will be slapped in jail. 2 lives wrecked for nothing.

I'll admit that when my heart rate is already jacked up at 150-195 on the bike it takes almost nothing to send me ballistic (and the closer to 180 it is the worse I get)....and I really have to restrain myself to not "attack back". Bottom line, the higher my intensity at the time of an bike-car incident, the more aggressive I get.

The physiological cues that the brain gets in a moment of rage and during high intensity exercise are not that much different....that's also why we are dicks to each other in open water swim starts and beat the crap out of each other and get angry....same cues. Not saying it is excusable, but the lower the intensity at the time of the "contact" the more likely my response will be civil and courteous. That's why in my officer training way back when, they told us if there is a conflict between your troops and they are doing something intensely physical, you gotta get them to back off on the intensity of physical exertion before you can expect them to act civil towards each other and restore harmony in your squad....

Dev

Nuts, especially if this takes Bryant out – if there is anyone close to being a political celebrity in Ontario, he’s one of them. This is so bizarre, I really don’t know what to say, but there’s little excuse for this reaction from anyone.

Anytime I have a close call on the bike, I do my best to get a cell phone pic of the car+licence plate, have a rational chat with the driver (if possible), and call the local police. I keep the non-emergency police contact info in my phone just for that reason. Happened again yesterday and the driver apologized to me because he was on the phone - I made sure he knew I had a pic and that I don’t hesitate to call the police.

I need some feedback on this: I've been considering starting a website/facebook group/etc. for posting pics of offending driver’s cars – I haven’t yet sorted out the legal/privacy issues on this yet nor have I figured out how to prevent abuse. Any thoughts?

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Head down, thumbs up, give'r
@barrettdj

You do have to smile and wave. Sadly though, I've found Toronto to be one of the more bike unfriendly places I've lived. Lots of cyclists does not necessarily make a friendly place to bike. Most of the cops here are pretty 'on the fence' about bicycles and the rest either want you off the road or are sympathetic. Their attitude does not send a clear message to cyclists about their status.

At the end of the day - I try to avoid biking during rush hour like the plague and try to give drivers the benefit of the doubt. I always assume that the drivers don't see you.

Having been hit by cars and trucks both when on my bicycle and on a motorcycle, I hope that justice is done. The driver of the car killed someone with his car. Chilling and sobering for all cyclists. If the driver gets convicted with a tough sentence (not likely in current legal climate here) - it will be slightly sobering for drivers.

Lame drivers that have no regard for cyclists are a reality that's not likely to go away until cars go away. Cyclists losing against cars is a situation that's not likely to go away until the laws of physics go away.

Sad to see this as it will likely only polarize opinion and in the end won't make life better for cyclists here in Toronto.

Ride Safe!

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Paul Lantinga
Sable WaterOptics from See Worthy
paul@sablewateroptics.com

Thanks Steve,

That"s what I meant to say but was in a hurry to say it.
Andrew

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C'mon legs run faster!
Being fast on a crappy bike is cool
Fueled by Guinness, Tuborg, Anchor Steam and Creemore Springs

He's been 'out' for a few months - there's a byelection for his seat currently underway - but you're absolutely correct that he's a very visible public figure here, and was a very influential and productive Cabinet Minister in the current government.

"These days I just wave at these hotheads( in cars) and let them go."

I find that waving can be just as inflammatory as the finger. It is even better to just keep both hands on the bars and keep going. I'll even say "I'm Sorry!" and leave the "I'm sorry your such an asshole!" unsaid.

Sad to see this as it will likely only polarize opinion and in the end won't make life better for cyclists here in Toronto

Paul

This situation has the real possibility of doing exactly that given who is involved( A former Attorney General for the Province) - it's going to get ugly.

Most here and elsewhere are quick to accuse the driver of the car. But there is some preliminary information being talked about that the cyclist was in the act of attacking/assaulting the car driver. Not saying what the car driver did was right, but that certainly puts a very different spin on the story, and a possible outcome from legal proceedings.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog