Answer would likely depend on the reason for the fatigue,, ie are you coming off a big few days.. or have you been mashing out a lot of low level volume?

eg if i have been doing higher intensity work and in particular running on top of higher level riding and the legs feel trashed, i will do a Z1 session and accept the crappy legs feeling in the knowledge that getting them moving will usually make me feel better faster..

if i have been doing a lot of low level Z2 - Z3 (ie IM training) stuff then these sorts of sessions are just adding more and if my body is telling me its had enough i listen to it.. so i may just swap in a stretching session / foam roller session or if i feel oose enough then just plain rest.. (or a Z1 swim... )..

Also in the case of the former example if i get halfway into the spin session and legs still feel toast then i may do half and half.. ie 30 mins to get the legs moving and then 30 mins stretching and rolling...

Good luck

Cool, thanks for the advice. I think it's more of the first example you gave.

Moving the legs isn't probably a bad thing. Lots of people believe that active recovery (z1) is better than sedentary recovery. But as Shadwell said, rollers or an easy z1 swim is good recovery too. If z1 feels like rpe 6/7 then just spin at z0.5ish. You're right to listen to your body though. Acute fatigue is fine but watch out for chronic overtraining. Sometimes it can be difficult to tell the difference

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Dtyrrell

At least try to spin easy for 10-15 minutes. If anything that will get the blood flowing and if you still feel like shite then shut 'er down otherwise keep going as to how you feel and make it active recovery.

Thanks all. I've just read a few times of people saying that riding at z1 is a waste of time unless it's a short recovery interval or a cool down.

its not a waste of time if its to get the blood flowing to clean out your legs from lactic acid....that's the point of active recovery!!!

I give myself 1 freebie per month. Just walk away, no guilt. Much more than that, and it's time to take a look at the training plan.

I have recently been working with a new coach (Chris Baldwin of DaybyDay) who advocates almost always "doing the work" and gutting out a workout on tired legs rather than packing it in. Once you've tested your legs and warmed up for the workout you have already taken your body out of recovery mode so you might as well suck it up RPE be damned, do the best you can, and rest the next day. I actually felt my biggest fitness bumps after pushing one day further really tired legs and then recovering very well (1-2 days off/easy). The motto is "some workouts are gems, some are just stones but they all count". It was a new philosophy for me but it works and it might give you a mental edge to suffer at high RPEs in competition.

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Yes, I've thought about that too. In fact when I first started in triathlon and didn't know anything about the concept of "overtraining" I would just push through every workout according to the plan no matter what. But I think I paid a price those first few seasons.

Now I try to respect the need for recovery, but I still can't tell if it's a detriment or an advantage to push through a particularly hard workout. I don't necessarily know if I'm increasing my fitness or digging myself into a hole. I know this stuff is covered a bit in the Hunter Allen book -- probably need to re-read that.

Not recommending any hole digging. Just finish that specific workout and rest afterwards. One workout won't break you, it will maks you better- just commit to resting until you feel at least 90% again. I used to follow Allen's rules for abandoning workouts at failure but I was quiting to early, too often and ending up with a lot of mediocre efforts.

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My season is over so I've got time to experiment. I'll give it a try and see how it goes. Thanks for all the advice!

Start every workout, sometimes getting out the door or on the trainer is the hardest part. Sometimes you'll clear out of it and surprise yourself but if you still feel like crap after 15 minutes, and you are on the tail end of a block of tough workouts, bag it and eat a pizza. A whole pizza. With bacon on it.

Unless you're already at either 2x your normal volume from prior weeks, or regularly 18+hr/wk, it's always better to get out there and slog through that ugly z1 workout.

Contrary to what you think, z1 workouts when really fatigued are not a total waste for AGers who aren't at the border of overtraining. Those painful slogfest miles can be the critical stimulus for breaking through to the next level, and especially on bike/swim where there's not any real injury risk from adding it. (Even on running it's usually far better to slog out that z1 run on dead legs.)

I honestly think that part of what separates folks that are stuck at BOP/MOP is the unwillingness to suffer through those slogfest miles. At some point it's going to hurt and you'll be substantially slower than normal temporarily if you're adding volume in a build. Too many folks decide at that time to start backing off right before the crucial breakthrough workouts occur. It won't be overtraining unless you do it for many weeks (months, more likely).

Just have to be smart about it. If you have that motto too many times it does become overtraining, and thats when your ass really gets kicked. Been dealing with that basically for the past 18 months and can't kick it.

Yeah, there are def some hardcore diehards on this forum that would def be at risk for overtraining - sounds like you may have been one of them!

For most folks though, this is really a hugely overstated risk. Except for diehard STers!

Do you remember the day when it was FUN riding a bike? Seems you have a "chore" mindset.

Ride to the donut shop or chat with your friends on a nice route.

Slogging out runs on sore, fatigued, dead legs, just preps you for the back 1/2 of the im run. If you have the durasbility, suck it up.

I agree, that sometimes on the trasiner your legs come around and you suprise yourself.

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Happened to me last night doing Downward Spiral on Trainerroad. Felt like crap warming up, legs really stiff, first spin up filled my thighs with lactate. Thought about getting off and watching telly instead, but stuck with it and ended up nailing a really great session.

However my HR was fairly typical for the effort, and it was really just my legs. A couple weeks back trying to fight my way out of a cold my HR was 15-20 bpm higher than I would expect (relative to RPE and power) attempting AVDP and I sacked off the session. I think the key to this is understanding what you are feeling; sometimes it's ok to plough on, other times not. I worry a lot less about my legs than I do my heart, for example.

Active recover is always better than just sitting around, just getting the blood flowing and activating the muscles that are damaged.

Although you could just go for a walk and get a similar effect as a recovery ride.

It depends on how fatigue you are. One day off will not hurt your fitness in any way. I learned this the hard way. Listen to your body first.