No, I was referring to this one (but it's similar to the one quoted above)

http://www.wsj.com/...t-healthy-1427079648

Personally I consider anything over 150 grams a day outside of what's consumed during training to be a lot but in general a lot of the canned recommendations I consider to be excessive. 50-80% of your calories should come from carbs, eat 2-4x your weight in grams per day and the like. If you would like the specific books and journals I would be happy to continue the conversation over PM. :)


I've noticed this as well. I've always assumed that this is due to needing less because of the lower body weight or their superior ability to use fat as fuel.

Add biochemistry and physiology to your class list and you'll learn that he's right. All--particularly carbs and fats--influence endocrine and GI function in significant ways. Each category of macronutrient has different metabolic costs to convert to fat.

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Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

-*Wow!* after more than 25+years, the diet debate continues (Pro athletes, amateurs, cyclists, bodybuilders, etc.). Just stop smoking, stop alcohol consumption, stop high red meat consumption, refine sugars, etc. (not 'you') Eat what you want, enjoy life! If you're on this forum your living a healthy life already! :)

So simple but I eat anything I want, just in moderation.

What really gets me is the excuses so many have about folks being fat. I have a number of fat folks in my family. Every time I try to talk about it and how I have been successful all I get is emotional push back that I do not understand, and I am just lucky, etc. When I say checking the scale each night does not lie I again get nothing but excuses. Why it seems so many will take ownership for their weight issue, rather than just blaming every else just amazes me.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

The harder you work, the luckier you are. Funny how that works.

Staying on topic with this thread, at one point (late 80's-early 90's) I was taking in 1 gram of protein per kg of bodyweight (I was an amateur bodybuilder), I was a non-cyclist, yet did the stationary and stairmaster work @40-mins every other day). All I do now for the past 18-years (3.5 as a cyclist) is cut the protein intake in half, train on an empty stomach, and eat 'sensibly.' I had 4 slices of deep dish pizza and french fries for lunch yesterday on Capitol Hill, 1 EAS protein bar 4 hours later, and a small bowel of chicken w/rice and carrots for dinner. A HIT #5 session this morning, and I'm ready to start the day :) I'm no athlete, but I'm not a couch potato.

your stop high red meat consumption fear mongering is 25 years in the past. It is only the charred / processed meat that is problematic.

...ok. I only fear McD, BK, etc. every now and then Five-Guys after an unplanned century ride. -but well-done only :)

Not true. No one is sure precisely why red meat is bad, especially since there are different things it impacts. Here are samplings of some current theories, but there is no consensus I've found.

That being said, I'm still going to enjoy a burger or steak once in a while.

-Jot

[…] may be due to the high haem content of red meat, because dietary haem increased cytolytic activity of faecal water and colonic epithelial proliferation.
• http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11577005

[…] as been suggested that fat from red meat is responsible, because high fat intake increases the concentration of cytotoxic lipids in the colon.
• http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11023550

Epidemiological and experimental evidence supports the hypothesis that heme iron present in meat promotes colorectal cancer.
• http://cancerpreventionresearch.aacrjournals.org/...ent/4/2/177.abstract

Bad? One second they say something is bad, then good, then ...

Bottom line we are all going to die. Might as well enjoy the ride.

Just so easy. Moderation and variety. Dah.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

And then go back to basic chemistry and learn what a unit of measurement is.

I read this but all I hear in my head is...



Later!

Brian

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Swim. Bike. Run. Repeat as necessary.
Welcome to the Church of Briantriology!

A few people that are worth reading: Nina Tiecholz http://thebigfatsurprise.com for a fascinating history of how crisco and white bread came to be "healthy" food and how grass fed beef got to be "bad" food.
Of course Gary Taubes, also Eric Westerman/Steve Phinney/ Jeff Volek. You don't have to be convinced by reading a book, maybe it just makes you curious.

The best question is "What works for me" and if you try some variation of low/er carb high/er fat for 30 days and don't like it you have lost nothing. (except maybe 5- 8 lbs and lower triglycerides)...)
Like others I followed a pasta/gatorade/powergel/pbj/chicken breast/ egg whites low fat "endurance athlete diet" for 20+ years and gained a pound a year despite being very active.
I'm now 20# lighter, 2 pants sizes smaller, really never hungry and all of my blood work and lipids are much improved. Even "gained" 7 years on my carotid artery scan "age".

FWIW Marion Nestle's WSJ is silly, she's long been in the "eat lots of whole grains and veggies" camp and offers silly platitudes like "we don't know what paleo people ate" but ignores the logical idea that they did not eat twinkies or pop tarts.

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don't just do something..... sit there

HAHAHAHAHA

That is what 99.9% of people hear in their head when people talk about health and fitness!

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"Just don’t abandon everything you’ve ever learned because of something someone said on the internet." - Eric McGinnis

Nestle doesn't recommend pop tarts, for sure. She is right that we cannot get an accurate assessment of what people are eating now based upon self-reporting, so how can we know what someone was eating 10,000 to 200,000 years ago?

I do think you are right that one size doesn't fit all, within reason. And nutritionists have not done themselves any favors the last 40 years with their changing prescriptions for a proper diet. Most people are CONFUSED.

My diet is mostly meat free, and is grains, beans, lots of soy, fruits, veggies, and a bit of yogurt, for the most part. I'm not certain that's the optimum diet for me or anyone else, but that's what I train and race on.

Obviously, this is area fraught with problems and more research and understanding is necessary.

If someone wants to eat a paleo diet, then give it a try. It might be just the ticket to get you lean...or not.

Diet advice sounds too much like religion for my "taste". ;)

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

OK, you go eat 3000 kcal/day in Twinkies and I'll go eat 3000 kcal/day of a diet of my choosing, and then we'll check back in a month and test to see who had a better month of training. :) I'll bet you'd barely be able to get out of bed. Our weights might even be considerably different. I doubt you could maintain a decent exercise regime for very long on a Tinkie-only diet. A calorie is a calorie in energy content only.

No one's arguing about the energy content of a calorie. The argument is whether energy content is the *only* property of diet to consider when trying to optimize performance. It's certainly one of the properties. Maybe even the primary property, particularly when the goal is weight loss. But there's plenty of evidence to suggest that we look at a wide variety of properties when selecting our diet.

I'd bet that most of the people here who say they eat "whatever they want" actually have pretty healthy overall diets. Having a healthy diet doesn't mean you have to do wacky, faddish stuff like draconian restrictions on carbs or bacon, etc.

I'm familiar with the recent research on the benefits of fats, but what's wrong with grass-fed beef?


From what I can tell grass-fed has slightly less saturated fat and slightly more omega-3 fatty acids. I wouldn't call that "bad." You might even call it "good," even though restricting 100% of saturated fat would be bad.

He is being pedantic regarding my statement that all calories are not equal. Strictly speaking, he is correct.

its the chemicals in the bread / sauce products for one. then those meats are also infested with hormones and antibiotics