I have 5 friends who did FL last month. Signed right back up for it again. I think the one with the fewest IM's....this one was her 3rd IM. 5 is not a huge sample, but it doesn't appear to be effecting their decision. Experience levels from ~ 5 years to ~25 years.

Arizona's popularity has been largely equal to Florida's for a few years - both sell out rapidly. Plus you have IM Nooga and October IMLouisville now for fall races in the Florida region which are also factors. I'm more inclined to say the new IM fall races have more of an effect than the pro/nonpro issue. Hard to say though.

I think it's way more likely the fear of a potential cancelled swim lead to a slight down tic in the speed of sign up. Not surprising considering what happened this year.

Hugh

---

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

It seems to me that there are so many factors driving a wide ranging diverse population to make a similar decision, that one data point such as how long it took one race to sell out, is hard to estimate that the 'pro' issue was involved any more than any other single possible reason (vacation schedules, groups of friends deciding to do a race, the impact of the swim at IMFL, etc).

The one are that will be able to discern the impact of the pro field is in the changes in participation rates at Challenge series races.

Jack

---

---

"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack

That's a great point, on the West coast your options late season are basically Arizona or Tahoe, quite the extremes in terrain!

---

Tim Russell, Pro Triathlete

Instagram- @timbikerun

Don't forget IM Maryland- many folks from the Mid-Atlantic are doing this instead of Florida.

I have never ever done a race based on who is racing. Since the "Pro" field for most IM's are not even shown until shortly before a race, seems tough to say a race that filled up a hear ahead was caused by Pro's that are not even known about.

Now what I do care about is the size of my AG, the overall size of the race, and the quality of the venue. If it is flat and a draft fest, no thanks. If it is hard with lots of hills for the bike and run, sign me up.

.

---

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I will throw a twist into it. I, and a few others, are actually excited about racing some events with no pros. The idea of competing to win an Ironman (more likely my friends than me) are quite appealing.

Exactly. It is just like Chattanooga and the swim debate combined wit longer bike, causing people to not sign up immediately. Or Lake Tahoe that sold out for its first year but nowhere close for its second year (and probably even lower next year).

And there is IM Maryland now as an alternative to Florida.

I think presence of pros won't make much difference, after all not many of us can name which races will have pros and which ones won't.

---

_____________________
Don't forget to attack!

I think it's more of an east coast/ west coast thing. East of the Mississippi has a lot more options. The west side- less. Plus, IMAZ is geographically separated by lots of miles until you get to the next IM, which is Tahoe.

---

---

---

Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Zero.

Why in the world would an age grouper care about which pros are racing? It has zero impact on them. Age groupers care just about as much as which pros are racing as pros care about which age groupers are racing.

Age groupers only care about the race date, venue, cost and proximity to their location. I've yet to meet an age grouper that said that they're not doing a race because so-and-so pros aren't racing. The only people concerned about which pros are racing are the event management company, race director and sponsors. And if an age grouper isn't one of those three then they aren't a factor in my opinion.

Florida now has Louisville, Chattanooga and Maryland to compete with in the same timeframe and all are similar venues. Arizona only competes with Tahoe both of which are entirely different venues.

And Tahoe is barely competition for Arizona given the challenges the race has had and the consequence this has on registration. Also, there are lots of triathletes in the Southwest but only two IM branded events within driving distance from So Cal. Tahoe would be one, and Arizona would be the other. Otherwise there's nothing close. If you're on the east coast or midwest there are many more options.

---

_____________________
Don't forget to attack!

Unfortunately there is no money behind this question, so to speak. In fact, it likely, if anything at all, supports the fact that age groupers could careless. Why? Because not a single age grouper, AWA, silverman/AZ package purchaser, or volunteer who signed up for AZ prior to even going online, had any clue of if any pros are going to race next year and who they may be. I would bet that it had absolutely no factor in their decision making process.

---

-----

"i’m the one guy who says don’t force the stupid people to be quiet — i want to know who the morons are." -- mark cuban

I think it has zero to do with the pro field or lack thereof.

That Southeast/Southeast-ish area of the US has a lot of options now. You have IMChatt, IMMD, IMLou, and IMFL all within 5-6 weeks of each other. The fact IMFL still sold out as fast as it did with three other races cannibalizing customers is arguably more impressive than IMAZ selling out instantaneously. IMAZ is pretty much the only west coast option that time of year. It's pretty much 100% the SoCal Effect.

---

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

I tend to think that it does, even if only subconsciously play a part in what event an athlete signs up for. It will be interesting to see if the non pro IM's are less of an even and have less prestige attached to them. I think people want the entire experience including racing side by side with professionals.
Also I wonder will Ironman put on the same caliber event in non pro fields.

The only way I could talk myself down that path is for a small percentage of participants that are really into the sport. The other 95% likely, very likely, can't even name a pro other than mirinda carfrae and craig alexander. I think one could argue that triathlon teams or "elite" age groupers will be less likely to participate in non pro events, because their sponsors may not be there in full force, but even that is a weak argument.

---

-----

"i’m the one guy who says don’t force the stupid people to be quiet — i want to know who the morons are." -- mark cuban

I think you're drawing at straws here. Both events sold out (and quickly). So how is this evidence that pros matter, or if the difference is even meaningful; i.e. ...If an event sells out, do the organizers care if it's in a matter of seconds or hours?

So the obvious question is. What fraction of AG athletes actually care about what pros show up? Sure there might be a handful, but I would suspect that they represents a small fraction of all registrants.

If you actually wanted to collect evidence, you could do 2 experiments.

1. The overt method. Upon registration, 'ask' entrants if the presence of pros swayed their decision to enter that specific event like AZ vs. FL. Pretty simple to do and it would quickly and directly assess if pros had any influence.

2. The experimental method. Look at registration behaviour between events that either do or do not have pros present. Does the presence of pros impact the likelyhood of an event selling out?

#2 is a pretty indirect method and of course doesn't explicitly mean that pros were the driving factor. Then we'll still be having the same conversation over and over again on slow twitch. That's why we need a race organizer to do #1 above.

I have no problems with pros being at events, but what pros are on the start line is the least of my consideration if I want to 'participate' in a marathon, IM, etc. Now, If I was going to 'watch' an event, then I might take some interest.

It will takes years for the erosion to take place. What will happen is that triathlon media will stop following it and it will fall out of peoples mind or people will never know it exists, meanwhile more resources will be put toward IMAZ. They may even do a 1hour recap show for TV. It will draw non-triathletes into the sport and the enhanced tri media coverage will reinforce IMAZ as a great event.

---

---

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

Ok I guess the reason for the difference was mainly geographical...

---

Tim Russell, Pro Triathlete

Instagram- @timbikerun

This is the correct answer. I doubt the presence of pros is affecting anything at Florida.

Did you forget the pink font? ;-)

I guess this is the Chicken Little mentality excuse running through the pro ranks these days? You guys and gals really need to embrace the reality of the situation in which you live in.

---

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

No pink font. I am actually disputing OP claims, however I do know of a few people actually boycotting that event and signing up for IMAZ for that very reason, but that is a small small minority and won't be the major drive of change. The major drive of change which still won't be major in grand scheme of things will be gradual erosion thru lack of marketing. Take a look at Rev events this year, there was no press. Are you suggesting press does not matter?

---

---

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

I sit in between Thomas' view and GMAN19030 polar view.

I think press matters, sponsorship matters and having a "race matters" as the race at the front is the "pace setter" for the entire field. Having said that we don't need pro pace setters in every Mdot race, just like we don't need 27 min 10K runners at every 10K.

But we do need a large group of 27 min 10K/2:04 marathoners runners in athletics to set the benchmarks at the marquis events. From the marquis events, where the pros square off, everything works off that....so we need top triathletes at Kona, at ITU Cups, at 70.3 WC's, at select IM races....just not every weekend at every event. The press will cover the key events, the sponsors will chase those and secondary races will implicitly benefit by being part of the overall pyramid, but then don't need to be the top triangle of that pyramid. Thomas I think we can agree on that. You need a top flight competition to have a show be it in WTA tennis or the women's pro field in Kona or ITU World Championship Series finale.....does anyone care that Lisa H was second at Arizona ? Not really....although we would care if she won, but no because she won at Arizona, but because of her past.

Having said, that close to home, next year I would have put zero pro field at IM Tremblant and put a pro field at the new IM Muskoka to test the thesis. IMLP that is sold out has no pro field, but LP is drawing from Boston and New York metro areas as well as Montreal-Toronto-Ottawa....you have like 40 million people in driving distance to LP.

To some degree, there is implicitly a pro field at every IM race...it's just not physically at your local race, but with your Mdot logo finisher gear, you're part of the road to Kona where the story is the pros.

Press matters assuming it's material. There's not enough press in the triathlon world combined to move the Give-A-Crap Meter for the AG ranks that sign up to IM events. IM events kind of sell themselves to their market without any help of the media. There just aren't enough eyeballs on ST or Lava or Triathlete to even matter. Word of mouth and an email/social media blast from WTC announcing a new race or race registration is all that's needed and it's 1000x more effective than the media.

---

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One