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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-7 (Critique my swim vids) [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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Ha I like that video, it certainly sticks in the mind. I'll give it a go for a few weeks. For a typical desk workiner, anterior pelvic tilting slouch like me it's going to be tough though. I'll have to keep telling myself the gains are greater than yet another bike gizmo. Cheers
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Re: Critique my swim videos [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for this thread. I miss Doug Stern and his advice.
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Re: Critique my swim videos [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for promoting this Dan! I always felt the filming of swimming is a bit more difficult to do as it requires a friend but luckily I have one of those LOL


Things I notice:

  • Left hand enters and pushes outwards
  • Elbow is dropping
  • Legs sinking

The fixes for these things is what I've been personally struggling with. Any further critiques would be very much welcomed.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ya0wpxfeam8929/CSH%20DEC%202016%20SWIM%20VIDEO.mov?dl=0





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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"
Last edited by: PushThePace: Jan 24, 17 11:05
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Re: Critique my swim videos [PushThePace] [ In reply to ]
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PushThePace wrote:
Thanks for promoting this Dan! I always felt the filming of swimming is a bit more difficult to do as it requires a friend but luckily I have one of those LOL


Things I notice:

  • Left hand enters and pushes outwards
  • Elbow is dropping
  • Legs sinking

The fixes for these things is what I've been personally struggling with. Any further critiques would be very much welcomed.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ya0wpxfeam8929/CSH%20DEC%202016%20SWIM%20VIDEO.mov?dl=0




Left hand enters too close to centerline. Think 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock entry positions, and you'll be more likely to be entering where you should (in front of the shoulder). You won't push outwards as much if you enter where you should. Fixing this will likely address the massive serpentine motion you have. Try this drill: hold a kick board with two hands (one on each edge) in front of you while kicking, then release one hand and take a full stroke. Hold the board in place (don't let it swing to the side on which you are holding it) and practice your hand entering the water next to the board (with your current stroke, you'd hit the board).

Left arm is definitely too straight during the pull. It's not so much "dropping the elbow" as not dropping the hand to get the vertical forearm. Don't worry about the elbow and concentrate on getting your hand below the elbow as you begin your pull.

See the video I posted above for how to get your legs up. Stretch your hip flexors, engage the back/butt/hamstring muscles. Try looking forward a bit instead of straight down, too.

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"i disagree with your analysis [or judgment], nevertheless you have the responsibility of moderating this board so i honor your authority to make the moderating decisions."
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Re: Critique my swim videos [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome pointers and greatly appreciated. I've got some functional anatomical issues I've been working on with my conditioning coach. I've got very restrictive movement in my shoulders (internal/external rotation) which is the root of a lot of these issue but fixing both at the same time is the goal.

I'll be incorporating the kickboard drill you've mentioned and the video was golden.


Thanks so much

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"
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Re: Critique my swim videos [realAB] [ In reply to ]
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I'll give this one a shot - I'm newer to working with other strokes, so can see what's off, but can't really describe in text how to correct.

Breakouts, underwater work, & turns need work.

Something is off with your back breakout - hard to tell from vid but is your back kick lacking propulsion? Doesn't seem to be timed quite right either.

Breaststroke - UW pull out looks short - again is kick lacking propulsion? Also breast - recovery should be quicker - can't see from video why, possibly need to streamline glide better?

Also, for the speed you swim, you take a lot of strokes. Not necessarily a super bad thing, but an indication there are likely some efficiencies to be gained.

L
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Re: Critique my swim videos [LauraM] [ In reply to ]
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I deliberatly shortened my UW on backstroke. I over reached on my last stroke in back and my arm almost got caught in the backstroke start bar. That messed up my flow on the first pull out. I've been working on keeping my knees narrow to cut drag in breaststroke so yes it might have less power than a wide kick but my splits are getting faster. Time was 4:50.81. Bear in mind only 1 guy in USMS (40-44) was faster in 2016 than that and its 4 seconds under #1 here in Canada. Should be a FINA top 10, I plan on racing it at Nationals in Quebec City. Just shows no body is perfect. My friend looked at it and said most of the same things. My fly was 1:03 high and freestyle should usually be equal. Believe me that first 100m was super easy...

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-7 (Critique my swim vids) [JoelO] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, what JoelO says. The first thing that happens when you reach to the end of your forward recovery is you pull your elbow back and your hand follows it. There is a lot of slipping there because you haven't anchored your forearm to the water before you pull through. Fix this and your swim will be much much faster!

Probably not new to you, but just in case, imagine you are standing behind a long line of 50 gallon barrels lying on their sides (Like Evil Knievel would have jumped them). Lying on the first one, reach over the second one and anchor your hand and arm down the rounded side of the barrel before you pull yourself over it, alternating barrel to barrel. If you don't reach your hand down, you won't have anything to pull on. Probably heard that before...
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Re: Critique my swim videos [PushThePace] [ In reply to ]
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Try imagining that you are swimming in a pool that's only about 2 feet deep. Make your pull parallel to the bottom as much as possible from front to back of the pull, and don't let your hand hit the bottom. Looks like your pull, L>R, is a big arc from front to back, with the low part being really low. The first half of that pull is spending energy pushing your shoulders up out of the water, and the second half is pulling yourself down.
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Re: Critique my swim videos [Emma'sDad] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks I've not been engaging my core enough which leads to the arch when combined with my poor mobility in the shoulders. I saw a great video yesterday which has got me a bit more aware of the "catch" phase which is where I think I'm most deficient (and seems to be what I'm hearing here) once I get my catch cleaned up I think the high elbow will come naturally.

This video of Canadian National member Kirsten Sweetland shows me an exaggerated catch like the Grant Hackett video but a different angle and in HD.

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=LylTSOqIFbs

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"
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Re: Critique my swim videos [PushThePace] [ In reply to ]
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I missed the part about shoulder mobility. If you can't get a good streamlined position without a massive arch in your back, you might have someone look at your shoulders and see if that could change. That's an uphill battle. I might even say engaging your core would make things worse if you can't reach enough shoulder elevation range of motion. That arch could be a compensation that works for you until you improve your shoulder mobility. You need those hands out in front!
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Re: Critique my swim videos [Emma'sDad] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah I'm already on the shoulder work. I'm doing an anatomical correction focus with my physio / strength coach. So far we've made some progress but we suspect a few more weeks and there should be even more. Right now I'm doing plenty of experimenting and filming to see if I can connect the dots between what I'm feeling and what is actually taking place.

Thanks for the feedback and insights. I'm happy to hear from anybody who's got more stroke correction tips.

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-7 (Critique my swim vids) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Update! Things I'm supposed to be working on: not having a terrible leg splay when I breathe and not bending at the wrist on the pull. I think I have improved on the kick issue and I have been working on a 2 beat kick which doesn't seem to slow me down.

These new angles show my left catch is awful! Any tips to help address this? This is also the side I smashed my collarbone on 2x and is less mobile from that. Any other issues to address here? Thanks.



Side View


Under View 2BK (skip to 20s)


Under View 6BK

Last edited by: ntc: Jan 26, 17 22:11
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-7 (Critique my swim vids) [ntc] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Slowman,

Thanks for taking the time to analyze all of our videos. I took my first attempt in getting myself recorded. The result is not optimal (vertical mode and unfortunately no underwater camera at my disposal), but I hope it exposes the long hanging fruits that prevent me from swimming more efficiently.

FYI: In the video below I was pretty well rested after a set. Would describe by RPE here as 7, and the pace must have been 1:35-1:40ish. Although the RPE is relatively low, I'm not able to maintain this pace much longer. I believe that my main limiters are muscle strength and the ability to perform a nice push. Pace for medium long distance (500m) would be 1:50 in 25m pool if I'm really pushing it. Last weekend I did 2000m in 41:40 and felt pretty roasted afterwards.

Any feedback, suggested sets or drills are more than welcome.

Thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VqLKqtILbU

Last edited by: euroracer: Jan 27, 17 2:18
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-7 (Critique my swim vids) [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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So much learning and great hint from all the videos
One of the things, I noticed when Grant Hackett swims is that he has a very clear rhythm. His arm is stretched in the water for almost 2 seconds before he initiates the stroke. When I see the videos and watch people swim in the pool, most people have one continually movement. They don't pause. How do you view the pause? What are the benefits?
Thanks!

Boman
http://forsikring.io/
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Re: Guppy Challenge, Week-7 (Critique my swim vids) [ntc] [ In reply to ]
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You are doing a lot of good things. Nice turnover, pretty tight kick and a pretty good streamline.

It looks like you are "putting on the brakes" when you extend at the front. You can see what I mean if you go frame by frame in the video. Keep those fingertips below the wrist when you extend out front...or think of keeping the elbow higher than the hand (whatever reminder works for you).

You're a little wide with your pull on the right ... otherwise, the right side looks pretty good.

In the first video, you can see that you drop the left elbow. If you have flexibility/mobility issues on that side, it might be easier to start with a slightly deeper catch. It would be easier to keep the elbow high(er) if you started your pull from a slightly deeper position.
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Re: Critique my swim videos [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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A little late at the party but I would like to have some feedback if it is possible, 2 weeks after a disappointing non-wetsuit swim at IM Fortaleza (1h21...) I started back at the Guppy Challenge, 3-4 swims / 7-9km per week this is 2x50m at the start of one of last week sessions:






Ale Martinez
www.amtriathlon.com
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Re: Critique my swim videos [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Ok, my turn very late in the game here. I'm a weak swimmer, and am open to advice.

Apologies for the quality of the video. The pool is a little murky and dark, and I was not sure where to position the camera on my first attempt at filming myself.
That being said, I did try to film a few passes, and cut out the dead time.

Here is my attempt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-c36lx33eE

Background: adult onset swimmer, been working out with a local Master's team for the last 2+ years and had a little 1:1 coaching. Some improvements, but I'm still MOP out of the water during races.

Cheers,
Sam
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Re: Critique my swim videos [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Slowman and All,

Many of the swim videos seem to have only a few useful frames ....

http://www.swimmingcam.com/camera-systems.php



This device looks good for side shots and could be home brewed pretty easily.

Also ...... perhaps a 'carbon fiber' (or bamboo) stick attached to the swimmer that put the camera directly out in front by 4 feet or so and captured slow motion head on shots.

Or maybe a tiny submarine drone that captured slow motion shots from in front or below or the side.

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: Critique my swim videos [Ale Martinez] [ In reply to ]
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You don't need any help if you can swim the pace in the video over the course of 2.4 miles....that's a 58 min IM pace. :) Take a look at Katie's hand entry and EVF and compare it to yours.

http://www.nbcolympics.com/...0m-free-world-record

She sets that EVF out in front so she's able to pull straight back early. You're not getting there until your hand is about even with your shoulder so you're pushing the water down rather than back in the first part of your pull. The Kirsten Sweetland video that PushThePace posted earlier demonstrates some drills to work on EVF. Btw, I don't think I have the flexibility to get vertical that early...she's vertical (Kirsten) at the top of her head.

It looks like Katie (and Michael Phelps) keep their thumb tucked in (a lot) more than you do. My coach keeps reminding me to tuck mine in a bit. I'm guessing it must be a drag issue.

You're crossing over a bit on the breathing side...not severe, but something to work on. You're also going way wide on the right side pull...bring that hand in closer to the body line so you don't stress that shoulder so much. It will also help you to maintain a better streamline (pulling straight down the body line).
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Re: Critique my swim videos [Ale Martinez] [ In reply to ]
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i got nothing for ya. stroke is fine. now it's just yards, and swimming in a fast group if you can, that will challenge you, one or twice a week.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Critique my swim videos [SPBaldwin] [ In reply to ]
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Sam, sorry, I got caught up in the "I can tell by his stride he's a triathlete"...I think I'm a hobby jogger.

You need a little work on the front end of your stroke. You immediately drop your elbow when you extend out front (much more so on the left side)...that's causing issues with setting up your catch properly. When you extend out front and when you initiate the catch, your forearm and elbow should always be above your hand. You might want to get a kick board & pull buoy and swim with one hand on the board and do some one arm drills. With the kick board and buoy you can focus on the front of your stroke...keeping the elbow high and above the forearm, wrist, and fingertips. During the mid part of the pull, make sure the elbow is not leading the way. The elbow down to the fingertips should paint a vertical line. The earlier in the pull you can accomplish this the better.

You also have a little claw-like look to your hand action. Keep the fingers fairly straight and inline with the wrist.

Your kick is a little wide at times...try to brush your toes and drop the amplitude a little so it doesn't cause as much drag. It's serviceable as is but it's something to work on.
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Re: Critique my swim videos [JoelO] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks - I appreciate it.
(I admit that in the pool I stick out like a triathlete - the watch, the toys, and the cap from a local race. No M-dot though...)
(And I'm not even going to go there on the runner v. triathlete. I know where I fall - in the more well fed camp. I probably look like a speed walker to the 15:xx 5k crowd)

I had noticed the hand and was working on that today.
Thanks for the comments on the elbow and the drill. I'll work on isolating that on Friday.

Ditto on the leading w/ the elbow. That one is harder to correct - do I then just push w/ the hand and then the elbow comes along vs. leading w/ the elbow?
I know I should not pull the elbow back, but the timing for when it moves back in the pull has proven challenging to work on.

Cheers,
Sam
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Re: Critique my swim videos [SPBaldwin] [ In reply to ]
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You're going to feel some water pressure on the hand and forearm but most of the "drive" of the pull is going to come from the big muscles (lats and to some extent shoulders). Once you "set" the EVF you'll want to maintain enough tone in the forearm and wrist to keep the paddle flat but the power in the pull should then focus to your upper body.
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Re: Critique my swim videos [realAB] [ In reply to ]
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anyone have any thoughts on fixing that right hand? general thoughts on improving everything.. this is a 2.03 200 fr (yards) at end of workout.
Last edited by: Slowman: Feb 2, 17 13:42
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