Very cool. Darbi Roberts (now racing pro) beat out all the men in one of our local races, the Lake George Half, just last year. With that said I can't see it ever happening at a WTC race. World championship slots and huge fields of competitors just aren't condusive to this.

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Tim Russell, Pro Triathlete

Instagram- @timbikerun

it almost happened with chrissie wellington in IM SA I believe... she was 3rd OA

Chrissie was 8th at the race. Chrissie is/was still a unique athlete, she was phenomenal but she also got to race her own race for the most part and the fastest most comfortable way to race is usually your own race.

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Still don't know why HITS dabbles in triathlon. They lose money in that business line...

time for some data on your part.

for me, the price of the NV HITS half went up 150% from 2013 to 2015.

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What are you people, on dope?

—Mr. Hand

First off, kudos to Lauren on a great race!

That being said, I can't see this happening in an IM event going forward due to the KPR and new prize purse structuring. With the new structuring of prize purses and fewer pro races, it is going to force even more competitive fields. FOP Pros show up for the money and KPR points.

We do see FOP Pros getting chicked on off days. Look at TO's issues in Kona this year. But the male overall, I doubt it.

This is more of a small market/local race thing. The quality of the pro field isn't as high with MOP Pros/BOP Pros showing up. 10:55 is a slow pro IM male or female. FOP Pro Males typically sub 8-9h FOP Pro Females 8:30-10h depending on the race profile, conditions, etc.


Running with the TO example I used above. With the abdominal issues he was having, he had to walk/jog the marathon and still ended with a 9:25:13 off a 3:52:30 "Run" On an off day, still no where near 11h.

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"Just don’t abandon everything you’ve ever learned because of something someone said on the internet." - Eric McGinnis

Except at IM races with no KPR nor prize purse. With the WTC expanding its services and concentrating its pro pool, there is a clear possibility that a chick could take the OA at a non-pro IM.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

That would have to be a pretty particular set of circumstances. Non-pro female who is good enough to be a pro, but isn't one, and a thin front end to the male field.

Certainly possible, but it seems less likely. Now for a small race, like HITS, I can see it happening. Have to imagine most athletes capable of a 10 hour IM are going to seek out WTC races with more competition.

That is definitely possible, I just don't think it is probable. Bigger and more quality AG fields show up at IM events for the same reason as pros (outside of the money obviously) which is to try to Kona qualify.

Looking at the HITs results, 10 women and 33 men finished the full iron distance. Compared to an average IM field of a couple thousand.

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"Just don’t abandon everything you’ve ever learned because of something someone said on the internet." - Eric McGinnis

A woman won the overall at HITS Waconia Half Distance. There were 87 finishers.

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Jogging - I guess you just run for an extended period of time

As for the 10:55, it would be nice if some pros came to do these races for a training session perhaps, then you can gauge the difficulty of the course. Im sure mark would be willing to comp a well known pro as that is advertising for him. - He did this with Meb when he showed up at his NY Hits run series event this year.

Also, on a small field the psychological effect of fox vs rabbit not there so perhaps a HITS racer will go a bit faster at an IM event. Last years female winner who went 10:30 will be doing IMAZ next week - Sarah Borst Jarvis who just went pro, I will be watching her

Which is why I don't really understand variable race tactics in non-draft events.

It is because you have no choice really not to partake unless you are so much weaker that you have to fall off. It is futile to try to explain unless you have been there. U see it all the time in time sports at a very high level. People are trying to win the race, they don't care about their time.

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HITS triathlon division still not profitable.

So what does that mean? Ironman just did a major equity and finance restructure (recapitalization)? That suggest financial trouble. In fact, rumors are that Lifetime is looking to buy them out, which to most WTC investors, probably sounds like a great idea at this point.

So HITS has been here what two - three years? Few capital investments profit in such a short time span, and in an article or thread here, it was stated their goal was 5 years for profits. But lets go beyond that. I didn't get IMAZ, I'm local to Phoenix. I am definitely looking at Lake Havasu for next year. That is how I found this thread. Heck, Palm Springs sounds attractive for a half. I've done Ocala in 2013 and I thought they did a stand up job. The key is to see if their overall race portfolio attendance is growing. Not just their IM distance.

I'm assuming as a closely held company with goodwill established in all these localities from their horse showf, they do a good job of keeping cost in check. I'm assuming a recapitalization by WTC with its sell out races, means they are not being efficient with their cash, or at least not generating the return expected by their investors. That tells me, they are in bigger trouble than HITS. HITS could walk away from triathlons tomorrow with no sweat off their sack. WTC can't. THey would have to sell races at fire sale or fold them.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Just wanted to reply to you.

A recap doesn't suggest financial trouble it actually suggestions financial strength, but you are right that extra debt that Ironman took on reduces the company's flexibility because they have to now repay that debt. (What the PR Firm did with Ironman is a PE Firms MO) HITS like you said mainly focuses on horse shows, but no doubt HITS is losing money in Triathlon, just look at the participate numbers. Just not really sure why they are in that business line.

in business you either win or lose? What if they are breaking even - then it is more altruistic movement to provide races for people, and some advertising for them. Dont forget they have a running series too, unfortunately none near socal! Now if they are breaking even, it will be easy to make moves for profit. They recently acquired some sponsorships.

Because the WTC is a private company (as is HITS) we don't really know what their motivation is and can only speculate. Things to consider for both.

WTC
1. Buying a lot of races. Quality suffering? I don't know, I've heard mixed things. Still selling out a lot of them, which suggest cash flow, so...
2. Why the recapitalization? Is this to get money out to the investors? Most likely. Not necessarily a bad thing, especially if the plan is to sell which leads to...
3. Partnering with Lifetime. Why would they do this? Lifetime is a public trading company with a growing portfolio, sound management, and a desire to be a big player in the triathlon world that will cross market between their gyms and races?

At this point only the WTC and perhaps Lifetime know the above.

HITS
1. They get intangible benefits by holding these races in the town they already hold horse shows in. Goodwill, tax benefits, etc.
2. Leaner with management having more skin in the game.
3. Are they growing? I haven't compared year to year, but the IM and HIM held on the Saturday, may just be the loss leader for the shorter distances.

Take Sommer sport in Clermont. He has leverage the Great Floridian into quite a good little business despite the race losing prestige and attendance over the years. He now runs a chip timing business that saves him money on his races and he sells the service to other races. His sprint distance races which he holds a bunch of nearly sell out. And he is well respected in the community.

HITS will never be the WTC, or whatever it becomes should Lifetime buy it. But they do provide a niche market. Reasonably priced first time or training IM and HIM races. High quality shorter distance races. I haven't met anybody who has race a HITS race that said they wouldn't do it again. Met plenty who haven't who said they won't. That is a lot of space to fill in between. Also, I ride with a couple different clubs that have die hard IM racers, who do one every year. Even they say the writing is on the wall. The market is saturated in the US for IM brand racing. How many IMAZs are there? How many IMFLs are there? What are we seeing now? IM Chattanooga, IM Maryland, etc. These are all obscure places nobody goes to. Maryland, Boulder and Tahoe are all still open for registration. I suspect Chattanooga is open because the swim is easy and it is becoming another rookie bait race as I have herd people call it. 680 bucks ain't cheap to go to places that really don't interest you beyond the race.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Synthetic-

Even if they "broke even", every company has a capital budget plan that requires positive NPV, no company invests in a project to break even, cause a break even is actually a loss.

The recap, that is what PE firms do, they invest in a company grow it lever it up then sell, Ironman will be sold probably within 3 years.

HITS, not their core competency so really doesn't make sense to be in that business line, but as you said a private company so we are only speculating. (BTW Goodwill=an intangible asset that represent the excess of the purchase price of an acquired asset/company over the value of the net assets acquired. But I know what you meant.)

I would just never race a HITS race, since I only race a few races a year.

In your market analysis, dont forget how challenge is making their moves (purchasing rev3).

Sponsorships. I meant to add that. I did notice they had a few new bigger sponsors. This is companies with track record betting on them. Look at historical IM sponsors? Zeasorb, Kswiss, Foster Grant, POwer Bar, who makes perform and bonk breakers for them.

HITS has Coca-Cola, Rudy, Hammer, Fuel Belt, Udderly Smooth. In addition to being well known and purchased triathlon products, there is some mainstream product there.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

I'm a controller for a company. I'm not talking about accounting goodwill, I'm talking about that intangible benefit in operations. But, the basis of that accounting goodwill is just that. That is an intangible asset that upon sale would certainly work towards goodwill in the accounting sense. Assuming of course, that comes with the company and not is exclusive to manager and owners.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden