I'll start by saying that I am not qualified to answer in any intelligent way if YOU can get faster. And I'm sure Dave C will chime in to tell you how to get fast like him - the dude is a really fast runner.

But my questions is if you WERE a fast runner and are looking to get that back or have you always run ~1:40 after smashing the swim and bike?

If you used to run sub-1:30, then I think you can probably ride a little less and run a little more. If you were never a "fast" runner, then you probably want to ride more so you can be fresher to run at closer to your open 13.1 "slow" pace.

Again, this is from someone who could be your son, would exit the swim after you, and never see you again until I caught you in the last mile or two of the run. What I want to know is how I ride fast like you when I grow up!

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/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

As another completely unqualified responder I would say - wow, you are not really running much at all. If I wanted to know if I could get faster I'd put my swim/bike into maintenance mode and slowly transition those hours into running hours over the course of 2-3 months with the ultimate goal of another 3 months where you cut your swim/bike hours in half and dedicate that time to running. A 20 minute run is hardly enough time to get warmed up.

I've always been slow compared to the best. I took over a decade off from road tris and don't remember my times, but I searched the Vineman results and apparently I ran a 1:27 back in 2000 for 2nd in the 70.3. And that run looks really competitive, so I don't know why I'm so much slower.

Funny thing is I rode a 2:31 so my bike is pretty similar, and I swam a 24. Only my running has suffered with age it seems. I didn't know this data existed so this is all new to me and I need to think about

ask yourself this question… If I gave up swimming and biking and ran 6 days and 50 miles per week, would I get faster. The answer is most likely yes. So, now you need to figure out how to add more running without losing too much in the swim and bike.

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What I do: http://app.strava.com/athletes/345699

how to run faster: lose weight, perform intervals often, eat righting do some weight training, but one has to be realistic and accept the fact that as you get older, you get slower, so don't expect to break world records if you are an old geezer.

By the way, simply increasing running volume with out intensity will not generally make you faster.

It can for a lot of people.

Source: just ran lifetime PR 5k on 0-2 miles speed work a week on BarryP base style training.

Increasing running volume without adding any intensity made me quite a bit faster. Adding the intensity on top made me faster still, with the bonus that due to the increased volume I had been doing I could better handle the intensity without getting injured.

Ok, I've given this a bit of thought, and, since your out of my AG (I'm 53), what the heck... I've noticed your results for years, and years. Quite impressive.

We're in a similar situation, but for really different reasons. You have a swim history - Me? Adult onset who is lucky. I've got my swim down somewhat close to yours (I was down from you by 1 min 2 sec in WF '13). Bike is similar. My history had been in running. No hero, but sub 34 10k (open races). Injuries the last two years have taken their toll. But, before that I neglected my run (my strength), and over time I paid for it. I forgot about building a base and ran little focusing on quality at the track. A decent strategy for the busy racing season - if one is focusing on sprints and maybe oly's. But for halfs??? There was no "there" - there. So in other words for me I had no solid base. Sorry for so much background; Here's where I'm at and, where it might help you.

Knock wood...

My injuries are gone. Been building a base since just before the new year. 40 - 55 mpw. getting the legs "tough" again. What a pain. But they are coming around. Kind of using BerryP. Though I do go to the track twice a week. My intervals are both good and bad. Good in the sense that they are way faster than the last two years during my fun filled time with Achilles tendonitis :-| Bad in the sense that for example doing a 1k in 3:45 used to be no big deal, now it's do-able but is real work. Here's the potential good news for me, and likely you. I've found my bike times/speed is better than the last two years even though I'm riding maybe 25% less (due to running more).

To be fair, I'm hoping to "test" this new program at Wildflower LC (but, only if there is a swim). So, I can't say for sure if I'll actually race faster - but, I'll bet on it! I admit to being in some denial re: Age and the loss of running speed - I know it's real, but, won't admit it - yet :-(

Best of luck,

Would love to connect at a race sometime - you doing Wildflower???

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I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________

I am doing Wildflower, and there will be a swim (I have contacts). Your advice, and everyone else's is what I've been considering (I probably should have stated that) - should I cut back a bit on the bike and swim and run more. Obviously what I'm doing now works in a way - I podium - but it may not be leading to my best possible performance.

Also of course, my current plan is pretty consistent with a lot of advice out there. Most people advice riding more and swimming more and let the run take care of itself, but that doesn't seem to be working here.

I'm afraid to change and fail, but I think I need to take a shot. I'm near the top of my age group (race age is 58), so I think I should build in more running and see how much bike and swim I can sustain (I used just swim twice a week, but I'm especially nervous about riding less, cause I'm good but not great in that regard).

Manofthewoods - connect with me at WF. I certainly hope to have to hang around for awards :-)

i used to be a competent runner 25 years ago, now at 53 i'm frustrated by slowness. One thing that has helped me feel like I'm moving in the right direction is working with a PT on my weak / tight hips and getting some help with run form. People can say that trying to fix form is a waste of time, but at some point where the form is just plain awful it becomes lower hanging fruit to fix the problems rather trying to get more fitness to waddle down the road faster.

I ran more this winter too, generally 6 days a week and a good bit of faster running, but not much faster than 10k pace.

Hopefully these two things will help, it has enabled me to be able to tolerate running much better, but it took the whole winter.

The other thing that I feel helped was getting a treadmill, it's easier on my body and allows me to get used to a steady load and think about form.

It sounds like the adage about triathlons in general. "Why be good at one sport when you can be average at three?"

You sound like you're already pretty good at them all though. I think you have to find a balance between the different disciplines. I would guess you don't lose much ground in the swim so you might could back off there a little as well as backing off the bike some (but not as much in my opinion). This would free up some more time to run. But I don't think you need to add a ton more miles just for the sake of adding miles.

My advice would be to not necessarily add volume to your training but intensity. I say that based on what I've seen in my own training. I seemed to hit a plateau in my run time (which is my best split) until I started adding some pretty intense intervals once a week. I rotate between short, medium, and long intervals weekly. I've been doing that for about 6 weeks and can already tell a difference. Also, even on my recovery runs I may run 40-45 minutes at an easy conversational pace and then for the last 15-20 minutes turn on the jets and finish strong. This differs from what I was previously doing which would have been just run 60 slow minutes. I read something the other day that said "long slow runs make long slow runners". I believe that. So now, almost every single one of my runs has at least a little race pace intensity. Even if it's just the last mile.

I train with a partner and he has seen an increase in speed as well since implementing these interval sessions. I have to say they are pretty intense but so far it has been totally worth it.

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The best pace is a suicide pace, and today is a good day to die. -Steve Prefontaine

I will chime in with the same disclosure as some others, I'm not a coach or a professional runner. With that being said I can hold my own and always finish in the top 10 run splits of the day in all my races. For me this year I focused a lot more on hard bike intervals and pushing myself hard along with 3 key run sessions a week. I'm now hitting times I hadn't ever seen before. The sessions are:

Total Time: 4-5 Hours Weekly
Session 1: Long Slow Endurance 1.5-2.0 Hours
Session 2: Hill Workout Pyramid 1.0-1.25 Hours
Session 3: Speed workout 1.0-1.5 Hours

Details Session 1:
This is a pretty easy going slow run I often use to get other runners out there. A slower triathlete, my fiance, somebody looking to run long. I do these at a 4:30-4:45/km pace and try to keep it fairly flat with a few rollers. Nothing out of the ordinary

Details Session 2:
For this session I always use the treadmill so I can control the sessions better. I do 10-15x3 minutes starting at an incline setting of 3 and 1.5 minutes of recovery @ Incline setting of 1.5. Each interval I increase the incline setting by 0.5-1.0 depending on how I feel. I also run these at a steady pace of 4:30-4:45/km regardless of incline.

Details Session 3:
This one I can use either treadmill or track/flat outdoor surface. I do 20x1 minute race pace (3:05/km) with a 2 minute recovery (4:30-4:45/km)

Now I also want to mention I'm 35 not 57 so there is probably some tweaking to be done to this to tailor it to yourself. For me it's been working and I suspect I'll have a lot better fitness and speed going into the run leg. I also do foam rolling and yoga as part of my overall plan which I think helps a lot in the run. Hope this is somewhat helpful.

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

I don't have your 24 yrs under my belt, but am 53, not a fast runner (mostly swimmer/biker) and ran what I think is a 10k PR last month (41:37) on consistent 35-40 mpw spread over 5-6 runs a week. Very little "hard" running, just one 10-20 min at threshold middle of a medium distance run ~ 1x/wk and also a fast 2 min finish on couple runs a week or some striders, so maybe 14-22 min of threshold a week but only for last 5 weeks of a few months build up. Most weeks were 3 x ~45 min, 1 x ~60 min and 1x ~90 min. Same plan got me to a 1:29 1/2 marathon 3 years ago, but that required ~40-60 mpw, lots of doubles and usually 6 days a week, also ended up injured later.

For me, at my age its frequency and volume, not lots of intensity, because the intensity is what causes most of my injuries and secret to maintaining my mediocre run speed is staying injury free.

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some days you're the windshield some days the bug

I'm really interested to hear what some of the running gurus here have to say to you. It seems like the ST M.O. here is to recommend lots of run volume, but at your age and high fitness level, I would be surprised if that is the best way. (I'm also in a similar boat in that I underperform in my runs...2:26 bike and 1:40 run in my last HIM...but I'm 40ish so nowhere near the podium :).

Your swim is really fast and your bike is also pretty fast. Did you plan on a 8:10 pace at Oceanside? (you mentioned an "even pace" I think, so it seems like that was your target pace). Have you run a stand alone half marathon lately? It's hard to say whether you are overcooking the bike a tiny bit (were legs trashed from the bike or bike/run combo?). Maybe you aren't training those top running gears enough?

One tactic to consider: I've been doing a lot more speed workouts this year and it seems to be helping (one track workout + one tempo run every week, and also mixing in some MP+ pace stuff into long runs). I think it is helping in 2 ways: 1. stressing different muscles at faster speeds (for me, faster paces seem more hamstring/glute focused vs quad focused when I run LSD pace) and 2. learning to suffer (running 6 miles at tempo pace really hurts me and is slowly teaching me to HTFU on the run, which I never have been very good at). I'm still early in the process, so we'll see.

Keep us posted and good luck.

I didn't plan an 8:10 pace. I planned to run at threshold, I have a very strong physical sense of what I can hold, which I back up with HR. As long as I focus on form and turnover, I don't target a pace. At a few points I tried to pick it chasing folks, and quickly found it to be unsustainable.

As I said originally, I felt great off the bike, and my power and HR numbers indicate I didn't push too hard - so I think I didn't over cook anything. My HR and pace were steady the whole run.

I have not run a stand alone HM in over a decade.

The comments posted here are what I struggle with - do I need more volume (and how to do that and recover, given I'm not retired yet with a corporate job), or add intensity - which by the way does seems to injure me (When I do track, I often have minor strains afterwards, without going crazy at track).

I'm going to try a bit more volume, and some added intensity - not track, but designed fartlek or tempo sets. I'll see what I have to do to ensure adequate recovery - that's the real struggle. It would be easy if I could just nap on the couch after my workouts :-).

I would think that adding lower intensity volume is much easier to recover from than increased intensity same volume.

Honestly it's volume. As you get older it's so easy to get injured, especially with intensity and once that happens there goes your consistency.
I reckon you should be able to add at least a third more volume to your run and work on the 80 20 rule. 80 % easy 20%(of sessions) hard.
The Barry P approach is great -run more frequently.
I did that this year for Ironman Melbourne and ran past a heap of guys who normally spank me and it was hot for a 3.34 marathon just on extra consistency and mileage.
46 years old

I've managed to run consistently 35+ mpw for several months at age 53 and am injury free, by being very judicious with intensity, never more than 4 days running in a row, taking at least one day off a week, or at least one-to-two days w/o running. Skipping one run is far better than taking weeks/months off due to injury. That was without much biking or swimming, now that I'm ramping up those for tri races its hard to stay over 30 mpw which is the bottom of the running "sweet spot" for me. All my swims and bike workouts have lots of intensity, but relatively low volume right now (~ 10hrs/wk), which is why I think I can still pull off running much faster in races than I do in training.

My typical 45-60 minute run pace is ~7:45 - 8:00, typical 90 minute run ave pace ranges from 7:20 - 8:30, for the faster runs I throw in some tempo mile intervals in the middle (~7:00 pace). As I said previously my recent 10k pace was 6:37 for a slightly rolling hills run, I almost never run at that pace in training, but I do run ~ 6:00 pace for 2 minutes at the end of ~ 2 runs/wk. I think that gives your body a chance to adapt to faster pace/turnover with minimal injury risk.

Also, the days that I run, its the first workout of the day.

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some days you're the windshield some days the bug

i spent this winter training for a spring 30k and decided to just follow a standard marathon plan. I used the Hansen Marathon Method book and found this program really worked well for me. I liked that the long runs top at 16 and I liked the structure and volume of the two quality days, a marathon pace run and some shorter work at 10k pace. I don'tthink it did wonders for my speed, but it allowed me to get used to running 50-60 miles a week all winter, which is a ton for me.

I think I did not get injured because a) I avoided the track, b) I did not run very fast even on quality days and c) when my legs were starting to get too banged up I did some xc skiing instead of the "bread and butter" runs.

but no bike riding to speak of. So, we'll see how that all works out.

To answer your question in 1 word.

Yes.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...post=4696455#4696455

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Thanks for the link to that thread Brian. Of course, there's an unresolved argument in that thread of volume vs. intensity (and it seems like you vote for intensity, with a good logic). I think I'll try both as I noted.

it's never a black and white volume vs intensity argument nor would I ever vote for one or the other only. Those who frame it as a this way or that way argument don't understand training methodology.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta