Any time I the race is hard because of air I am in the drops so I can't be bothered to care.

However, more heights to put your hands at could be nice for some people.

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Look closer...they are claiming the position they created is faster than the drops. And not by a little amount either...Free speed over everyone else!!!

yeah but that is absurd
just get narrower drops

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Bingo. I was with them with being faster over the traditional tops position (elbows look tucked in more), I bought that it MIGHT be faster than on the hoods...but they lost me, and all credibility, when they said that it was faster than the drops.

would be nice to have a little 'dip' in the bar near the stem so you could do invisible aerobars with less danger!

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Not buying it...and the data presentation is a mess.

---

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I'd like to see hoods with horizontal forearms compared with all of those, though that company might not like to see it.

Wy not just mount a pursuit bar? Are they illegal in mass start events?

It looks like the advantage they are touting is a position similar to the tops; but with the forearms at 45deg. (instead of parallel to the ground), which pulls in the elbows.

The gain really depends on how different your back position is in the drops vs. the tops.



You could always use this hand position, but down at the level of the drops......
.
.
.
Hello 1991!

---

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

My fastest position is hands near stem. Not in the drops. I have my arms bent heavily and I ride pretty low, too.

Cuts down on body frontal area

Anyone else notice that on par 21 of that, two slices on the pie graph which are both supposedly 5% are massively different sizes?

But the data says it which means it is...;)

They ignored the Sphinx position. That's where I'm fastest.

Interesting idea, but you can achieve that same "breakaway" position with a normal bar. It may not be quite as comfortable on the wrists, but I can't recall ever caring about that during a breakaway.

---

Zach McCormick
Catalyst Cycling
http://www.catalyst.bike

Obtaining consistent numbers when comparing road positions requiring the elbows bent and suspending the upper body is difficult to achieve. The slightest change in elbow angle will skew the results good or bad. You need multiple runs in each position, preferably with multiple riders, in order to make any conclusions. It doesn't appear this was done, so I would not trust these numbers (there are many reasons I wouldn't trust these numbers, this is just one).

I find it odd that the "Sphinx" position was not tested. It's well known this position is faster than in the drops with the same back angle, so it most certainly should have been included. It wouldn't surprise me if it was tested, but not included in the results. If true, the results would have been more believable by including the numbers and simply stating they've created a comfortable (assumption) position that adds a more aerodynamic hand position than most others on a road bike.

They claim "independent" testing, but I see no evidence of this. It is an interesting concept to me, so if BP4 would like to send one of their bars to ERO, I will happily test it here and in the wind tunnel (likely A2 late fall/early winter). The results will truly be independent.

---

Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Amen brother!

---

Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

Beyond the major methodological issues raised, how about the fact that their "new" position is only safe when off the front. I certainly wouldn't want guys in the pack using that hand position to save energy. I love innovation, but I am not buying any of these claimed gains. Now Jackmott's idea of having an integrated forearm rest for a tuck/tt position is an innovation I would like to see. I've resorted to using bar tape to provide a non-slip pad on my Spec Aerofly bars. Damon, maybe on the next edition of your bars you could integrate a small aero pad.

Hey Jim, the wind tunnel testing was done at Faster in Arizona. So it was independent to be sure. Perhaps we can send you one to test for yourself. Let me know. Cheers, Cody

To paraphrase Tufte, the only thing worse than a pie chart is several of them, mislabeled.

And I suspect Pauli would've said this whitepaper wasn't even wrong.

Definitely.

Also want Jim to grab a bar and do some testing.

I was planning on going back to Jim for a fit update anyway. I'd be happy to ride this bar against my stock felt bars against the Enve aero road bar I'll be putting on and see which yields the biggest gains.

I'm happy to conduct an independent test with the bars. I'm quite interested in whether or not they actually do provide a sustainable hand position with an aero advantage, so will consult with Cody, or whomever, prior to testing to insure proper setup of the bar and rider position. Whenever we test products from manufacturers, our goal is to neither bash or promote the product, but simply to provide non-biased results for our clients and consumers.

---

Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Hey Jim, once we have the production bars ready we will bring them to you. We are in Newport Beach. Can't wait.

Cheers,
Cody

 Results are in !! http://www.teambp4.bike/...erodynamics-results/

Not going to lie....I'm surprised, but pleasantly so.

Do you happen to have pictures of the three positions closer to head on and from a pure side view while testing? Just trying to figure out how this position changes the body position to make it more aero.

thanks for following up.