I would wait for the Zipp 858 which should be the 808 version of the 454. Get a Super 9 disc.

---

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

It is mostly marketing. But, there are some material advances since your first-gen Flo wheels. So, you would get a significant improvement just moving to the current gen Flo CC wheels. Most folks would argue disk in back for max performance.

If I were spending cash, for the sake of spending cash, I would probably rank the spend in this order:

1. Enve
2. Zipp NSW
3. Flo

However, if I really had $3K to spend on wheels today, this is exactly what I would buy. That would chime in at about $3K, and give me the ultimate flexibility and backup in my wheels. I would use the 60/90 is my everyday wheels and for most races. And, I would use the 90/disk or 60/disk for times when the wind was light and I wanted all-in performance. And, if I ever damaged a wheel, I would have a backup.

• Flo 60 front
• Flo 90 front
• Flo 90 rear
• Flo disk rear

HED JET+ Black

Reasons
- Superior bracking surface that is made of aluminum to boot
- Wide internal diameter
- Proven aero
- Light
- In combo with a set of HED+ training wheels there is no brake pad swap, both the pads and adjusting width

---

---

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

Williams System 85 + a disc cover and then take the extra ~$2K to the bank.

What sort of courses?
Just for racing or will you train on them too?

If riding them on very hilly courses or using them for training, I'd want alloy rims. I fail to see the point in full carbon, it's a downgrade in all but weight. A wheel-cover for the rear will get you all the gains or go to a full disk if you prefer.
I think it's a waste of money, but that's just me. I'd spend it elsewhere or not at all.

I think that's a little overkill as far as wheel selection goes, but this is the direction I'd go. I'd get a latest gen Flo disc, either a 60 or 90 up front depending on what you feel comfortable with. I'd also say use your old wheels as training wheels after getting the new ones. I just don't see what the real advantage there is to spending the extra thousands on Zipp or Enve while they don't really test significantly faster.

I don't mean to hijack this thread but I'm also in the market for a new set of wheels. I currently have Flo CC 45. I love them but I want to go deeper and was thinking about going to their 6090 carbon aluminum wheel. My question is with the Hed Wheels isn't there carbon fairing flimsy and pliable as opposed to flo more rigid. Is there a benefit to one or the other that I am missing

I totally agree... But, if I had to blow the full $3K, that is how I would spend it. In real life, I would probably buy a Flo CC 60/90-- exactly what I have now, and either get a disk later or just run a disk cover. I did the extreme to illustrate how much more value and performance is available through Flo versus Enve or Zipp at ~$3K/pair.

Well do you want full carbon wheels or aluminum/carbon? That's probably your best starting point.

---

-------------------
Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram

Think I am going to buy a new Flo disk and front 60 - plus a giro aerohead because maybe it's quicker than my old one

Thanks all , as expected a number of opinions

Cheers Steve

Have you tried ENVE's new textured carbon braking surface? It is very good, IMHO.

^^^THIS^^^

---

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I have to ask though...what would be the rationale for wanting wheels made completely out of carbon, instead of a carbon/aluminum mix, if they are of the same weight and arguably better performance (aero and braking)?

If it's "looks"...well, the Jet+ Black Turbine surface looks the same as an all-carbon wheel. If I had a dollar for every time someone mistook my Jet6+ Blacks for all-carbon wheels, I'd be able to buy quite a few beers ;-)

---

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

They are rigid enough to perform their function, which is to provide an aerodynamic shape. Yes, they are more "pliable" than an all-carbon rim, and you're not going to be hanging your bike from them by the wheels with garage hooks. That said, for general use they are fairly durable. I've put close to 7K miles on my Jet 6+ wheels, including having them go through a major crash (I ended up with a fractured pelvis) and they are still looking great, with no damage at all.

The main advantage of the Hed Jet Black wheels over the Flo alum/carbon models is that the braking track has machined radial grooves, which not only improve the braking (over the already good aluminum tracks of the Flos) but also keep the brake track anodization from getting worn away. The Flo carbon caps are a bit more rigid, but the wheels end up being a good bit heavier too as a result.

---

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I have. I had a pair of Enve SES. It is a joke compared to the HED JET+ Black. Honestly, they need to come with a warning label because I am used to grabbing my brakes on carbon and now I can easily go right over the bars. Have you had a chance to try both?

---

---

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

I agree mostly with Thomas and Tom A about the HED jet +. Can't go wrong with that, and they are very reasonably priced. I recently bought a new set of race wheels and did it slightly differently - I got a Hed jet+ disc, but for the front I got a Roval CLX 64. I was convinced by the discussion on here of the Roval white paper that Specialized engineers participated in very openly that they are likely to be slightly more aero than the Hed wheels, and while not a decisive factor, it's nice that they are so light. But I do have to change pads on the front wheel.

There's no way I would shell out for the Zipps or Enves. They are so much more expensive (especially the super 9 clincher disc, WTF??) for as far as I can tell no benefit whatsoever.

---

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Simple wheel decision tree. Rank them, then let that guide the selection...

1. Braking
   If High Priority, then Carbon/Aluminum
   
   
2. Aero Performance
   If High Priority, then Carbon Clincher (some argument that it does not matter, but it seems like most tests favor CC over C/A)
   
   
3. Weight
   If High Priority, then Carbon Clincher (some C/A may be light, but generally CC are lighter)
   
   
4. Durability (strength of the rim to withstand rough roads)
   If High Priority, then Carbon/Aluminum
   
   
5. Looks
   If High Priority, then Carbon Clincher (there may be some C/A that look good, but generally they do not beat CC for many people)

So, in my case, I prioritized Aero Performance, Weight, and Looks higher than Braking and Durability for my tri bike. I ranked CC sufficient for both. So, for me, CC was a slam dunk easy decision over C/A.

Edit: In the case of my road bike I just built, I prioritized Weight, Braking, and Durability above Aero Performance and Looks, so for that aluminum was a slam dunk no brainer easy decision over CC.

People have already been talking up the HEDs, but I wanted to tack on as well.

I have a HED Jet Disc+ & 9+ for racing and a set of HED Jet 6+ for training. And when you get wind like we got in Galveston on Sunday, you just use the 6+ up front instead of the 9+.

The total sum I paid for all of these wheels brand new (disc & 9 from mybikeshop w/warranty; 6+ set unused from guy on here) was $2667.

I did that last year pairing with a black in the back. That was even worse because I was jamming on the rear back and it would lock up the wheel. If you are going carbon front, I probably wouldn't go Black rear unless you ride it in training all the time. In that case probably better just to go with HED Jet+ which sounds like what you did. You mind becomes too accustomed to the amount of pressure and too much grab on the rear causes issues.

---

---

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

That's exactly what I did. I do not think I will need the braking in a triathlon provided by the black so why pay for it? My old He'd jets did just fine on the Zell Am see descent!

---

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

Why don't Bontrager wheels ever seem to make it into the Discussion?

I had Bontrager D3s. Why bother. There braking is poor IMHO. I really think we were all sold a bill of goods on carbon wheels now looking what came out of the Blacks. The D3s don't brake that well IMO. Go with the ENVE or NSWs if you are going carbon.

---

---

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

I don't think I have ever seen any data on bontrager wheels.

---

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

---

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/