Sounds to me like you need more saddle time.

It could be either. How long is 60 miles for you? Do you do these rides on an empty stomach. How many miles a week do you ride? How hard do you ride?
But the problem could probably be solved by riding more. And riding your midweek shorts rides quite a bit harder.

How did you pace the ride? You probably rode too hard the first 2/3rds and didn't have the fitness to hold that pace at the end. In particular, it's very easy to go really hard the first 10-15 miles without realizing it, and basically grenade your legs or the later part of the ride. That happens to me 1/2 way back on a windy ride. Sounds like your eating around 200 calories per hour. You should learn to get used to eating at least 300 calories (depending on your weight). You can get by on 200 for a 70.3, but won't make it to T2 in an IM before bonking unless you rode really really slow and burned only fat stores.

But overall your probably not riding enough. Honestly with a IM coming up in August, now might be time to panic and hit the bike HARD. You should be able by now to crank out 60 miles at a low Zone 3 Tempo effort without any problem... and still run 3-5 miles off the bike without issue.

Most of my long rides are only 2-1/2 to 3 hours right now and will be during most of my build (more family friendly and easier to hit higher weekly training volumes), but I'm doing them at about 83-86%.

---

TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

I've actually been pacing very well and have been able to keep the effort down over the first half and I let myself pick it up a little bit on the second half. It took me 4:10 to do that 60 mile ride this last weekend. I was hoping to be in better shape 4 months out from the race but it is what it is and I've accepted that. In the last week I've decided to cut down from 4 individual runs to 3, so that I could do 4 rides instead of 3. So I'll be getting in extra miles every week now on the bike, which I'm hoping will really help. And I have been doing the midweek rides at a considerably higher effort.

As I add miles/time onto my long weekend rides, how much should I be adding at a time? Should I just go by time and try to add 30 mins every 2-3 weeks?

Ditto on the more saddle time sentiments. Most IM athletes just don't spend enough time riding to do 112 miles strong. Your VO2 max and FTP could be up over the 90th percentile, but if your legs lack the durability to pedal moderately hard for 5-6 hours, you aren't going to feel great in the late miles of your ride. People always seem to be trying to substitute high intensity for time, because it seems like the most efficient use of limited training time, but there is no shortcut to real endurance.

---

Tim Russell, Pro Triathlete

Instagram- @timbikerun

Definitely not the calories, your consuming enough of those. TITS.

---

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Assuming approximately 3 hours for the ride, I make that 2 powerbars (~400Cal) plus the 2 bottles of Gatorade (~200Cal).
Under-fueling is likely to be the least of your worries, especially if you've eaten a few hours before you go out. I race bikes and for a hilly 60+ mile race I typically go through 2 bottles of whatever drink I happen to have (less if it's cool, though I'm not a heavy sweater) and maybe 1-2 gels (however much I manage to suck out of my flask). That's at race intensity - bike race, not IM.

Someone else said about training to get used to taking in enough calories to fuel an IM, which is a good idea, but that's largely fueling for the run. You don't really need that much to get a 60 mile ride done. I don't even bother taking food for training rides of under 2 hours, just eat beforehand and have calories in my drink. I'd look at how you're pacing the ride - chances are you're going harder than you can sustain. It could also be that you're riding more than you're currently fit for through the week and are tired coming into the long rides. Could you post a link to the ride here (assuming Strava or Garmin Connect)? What does a typical recent week look like?

---

----------------------------------
http://ironvision.blogspot.com ; @drSteve1663

The symptoms of a "bonk" are different from general fatigue and tiredness. (Although the "bonk" is usually in addition to these things). "Bonking" is a state where you have literally run out of energy and you can only move forward to the degree to which your body can free up more.

There are three unique symptoms that I experience:
1) Feeling ill. Not just exhausted. It feels like I have the flu.
2) Inability to accelerate. Most of the time my speed is moderated by pacing, pain tolerance and aerobic capacity. I could always go faster, if I had to. This is not the case once you bonk. Go hard and you are still running 45 sec/mile slower than you were before you bonked. Go easy and you are moving 1 minute/mile slower.
3) Drop in heart rate- Why pump around a lot of blood? The body has enough oxygen. One is not going fast! One is not going to go fast! What the muscles need is sugar. And that will be available when the body says, not when you say.

In a way, once you bonk your race is over. Speed is no longer a question of mind over matter. Matter has won. You are simply waiting around for your digestive system to put sugar into your blood, and for your body to turn fat and muscle into sugar.

Here's a link to the ride. It took me 4:10. I don't think pacing is really the problem. I took it very easy.

http://www.strava.com/activities/131902981


I also don't think I'm riding too much during the week. I've probably been doing around 40 during the week, but I'm going to start adding another ride and will do around 60.

It looks to me like you probably just aren't riding enough, and haven't built up to the distance yet (hence the 4 hour ride is too long by comparison with the amount of riding you do).

My advice would be: Ride more. Rest well.

---

----------------------------------
http://ironvision.blogspot.com ; @drSteve1663

time in saddle fitness. I did a 4:15 rides two weeks ago on 2 water bottles. 3800kJ expenditure. no food during ride as seen here. that is my long ride of the year as well. even got lost and had to resort to compass on iphone to go right direction back to start.

http://www.strava.com/activities/128253398

I know E Northport--I would get on 25A and ride west and then spin around and head east and chew up the few hills you have...MTB has some serious vertical...your other choice is to drive up to Harriman State Park and bust out a few rides up there, you can easily ride 60 with 4K plus vert which will get you close to what MTB will be throwing at you...and the run at MTB is no picnic either-run those hills Clay Pitts Road probably won't cut it.

Pots

Anyone can do this, don't think you're going to be running well off the bike.

I don't run, OP was talking about a ride issue with no mention of running afterward. the question is, is it time in saddle or calories. it is not calories for a ride only. OP having issues with 60 mile rides for an upcoming IM. IM's tend to be longer than 60mi........................ :|

Well I think that I agree with you that he needs more time riding. He also implies that he needs to run after because he is training for an Ironman. In this case I would eat more than what he ate on that ride to train his stomach for running off the bike.

I just did 4hr30 Ride the other day.
5 Bottles of sports drink
4 Gels
2 Powerbars
1 Bottle of water
137 lbs...

I ride on 25a all the time. That used to be my regular route, between Nopo and Smithtown, and I'm going to start riding it again soon. I don't have much time to hit all the good hills during my weekday rides since I moved to the next town over, but I think I'm going to start heading east on 25a on my longer rides instead of the service road. I'm planning on getting up to Harriman or Bear Mtn 2-4 times if I can swing it.

Run wise I know I need a lot of work there. I've been very hesitant after suffering from overtraining in Nov/Dec. It took me so long to recover from that and I'm trying to avoid it again. I need a bit more consistent running in my legs before I start adding the big hills around the Hton area.

Yeah, I wasn't really talking about running at all. I know nutrition changes when you throw a run into the mix, but I'm not at the brick stage yet so I was really just wondering about riding specifically. I am more than okay with the fact that I will have to walk a lot of the marathon, but nonetheless I will get myself in to the best shape I can and hang on for dear life!

But the idea is to practice your nutrition now so when you do get to those long brick days you don't have any stomach problems.

I completely agree. But what I was really wondering was if how I was fueling was causing me to feel crappy at the end of a ride or if it was just a lack of fitness. I think others were just saying how I fueled wouldn't lead to that because I probably didn't even need that much.

The better shape I'm in, the longer it seems I can go before bonking.

The problem, however, is that the better shape I'm in the faster I can go which can also lead to premature bonking.

So my solution is to ride lots and eat a ton while doing so.

Tiechs42,

just a few suggestions from a hasbeen who never was, but is lining up for an IM in a couple of week.

• Your IM is 4 months away, not long, but don't panic. this year I didn't get over 100 km ( 60 miles ) until about 8 weeks out
• Have a look at the Hammer Nutrition website as they have some great nutrition articles and guidelines for endurance athletes. http://www.hammernutrition.com.au/info-centre/
• For one of your upcoming long rides, take a day or two off prior and start that ride fresh, turn off your computer, just use your watch to give you the turnaround time,ride 2 1/2 hrs out at a steady pace, turn & head for home using good nutrition & hydration the whole way and you'll probably break through your distance limiter as well as your bonking. You may find that you've been carrying training fatigue into your long ride.

good luck and welcome to IM.

100% fitness issue. You had enough to make it through 60 strong unless you intentionally starved yourself prior.

Thanks! I'm not really panicking, I'm actually feeling pretty good at the moment. I'll definitely take a look at the site, thanks for sharing. I've actually been taking the day off for the last few weeks, however not intentionally. My body has been telling me when I wake up Friday mornings it's time to sleep extra and rest for the day. Thanks for the suggestion though. I definitely think I just need to give it another month of solid, consistent training and I'll see some improvement.

Why are you cutting down your runs? Why not just add another bike?