Sorry, no such thing as a serious cyclist who spends 90% of time on a trainer.

Agree with the OP, cyclists and motorists both need to be respectful. As far as the comment about trainer time, seems off topic and inaccurate, given that some elite male and female triathletes that are strong cyclists have claimed 90%+ time on the trainer, citing higher quality, more focused, and more efficient workouts.

I ride St. Mary's road on a near daily basis. Sure, there are groups which are large and hardly going single file. But, FWIW, I think most motorists have come to expect them on that road.

Below is an interesting article drawing an interesting parallel about "entitlement". Leaving aside the political analogy, I think the idea of "driver entitlement" is spot-on. Drivers will tolerate other drivers breaking the law, but go apocalyptic if a cyclist rolls through a stop sign.

http://alittlemoresauce.wordpress.com/...out-white-privilege/


No doubt the honus is on cyclists to obey the laws and we all can help in that regard.

---

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

I see motorists ignoring laws, etc every time I ride too. Maybe they should quit driving until they learn to be responsible.

Non sarcastic reply:

There is no equivalency here. When a cyclist is inattentive or rude it causes a slight inconvenient for a motorist. When a car is rude, violent, or inattentive it causes other people to die.

Cyclists ignoring laws is not why cyclists get killed by cars. Cyclists get killed by cars because people drive recklessly.

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Sure, large touring groups can be problematic.

I do also like the "serious cyclist" AND triathlete part with 90% on the trainer. That was funny ...

---

____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

I suggest the OP spend more time outside before making blanket assertions as to the true dynamics serious cyclists face.

the Club I ride with is very often on Saint Mary's Road- to either get North or West from Northcroft Park- and yep have seen some very large packs out there this summer. Most behaving themselves, and as a club we have a ride captain every ride who has no problem sorting silly stuff out amongst us. We ride 2 abreast all the way up as that is what IL allows, unless, as per recently some road works caused us to go single file- Now Barrington Hill is another matter- one rider today was run off the road, and fortunately, his companion got the tag- and police issued some sort of ticket.

Ride smart and ride safe out there.

---

Graham Wilson
USAT Level III Elite Coach
http://www.thewilsongroup.biz

One problem with a bad cyclist is that the effect is compounded by the fact that so many cars come in contact (figuratively) with them. At least with a bad motorist they don't encounter as many other vehicles, by nature of the fact that they are travelling closer to the speed of the other vehicles, but cyclists are relatively slow, so get viewed by a larger audience.

Another problem is that a bad driver can actually leave too much room for a cyclist, and hesitate to overtake, causing congestion behind them. I believe that any irritation with that driver, from other drivers, will then often get transferred to the cyclist.

the problem is that motorists are people inside cars.
the problem with cyclist is that they are people on bikes.

People are the problem

In my experience, dickheads are spread fairly evenly through all societal groups, all races, religions and certainly spread through income brackets. In reality, dickheads are in the minority, but by their very nature, they are a very visible minority. That visibility garners them more attention than they deserve.

Sometimes dickheads drive cars, and motorists in general, get tarred with a broad brush.
Other times, dickheads ride bikes, and cyclists in general, get tarrd with a similarly broad brush.

People are the problem. The solution is not to avoid riding on the road. The solution is either get rid of all the people, or simply stay away from people. Each of us gets to decide how we choose to react to having to share the planet with other people :-)

---

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

I used to ride St. Mary's on my own when I used to live in Chicago. Most motorists were cool. My old team, XXX, was very stringent on ensuring the group obey the rules of the road. In IL, it's legal to ride 2 abreast on this route. I can't speak for other clubs, but the bigger issue are few well know group rides on Sheridan Rd. that would probably get dropped within the first mile here in SoCal. Just me 2 cents..

-Pete

---

"Most of my heroes don't appear on no stamps"
Blog = http://extrememomentum.com|Photos = http://wheelgoodphotos.com

Graham, two of us Amphibian guys had a run-in yesterday with a motorist coming into Barrington (not BH). Things are definitely getting tense out there. I have never had an issue there until this weekend.

---

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Nicely put. I was waiting for the ....and cyclists are pussies, and dicks fu<k pussies, etc... speech. :) However this is where I always try to hold my tongue. Sadly I don't believe you can call them dickhead's and still claim to be promoting a tolerant society, really your just mirroring their behavior, just on a different stage.... My 2c.

Hell, I freely admit that sometimes when I drive, I can be a dickhead. sometimes when I ride I can be too.Thankfully those days are becoming less frequent. I try to be a better person every day, even a little bit, but I generally fail at that. Still, people line up on a continuum from axe murdering %#$& to Mother Theresa types. And we are all flexible, not being exactly the same every day.

I think the important thing is to try to be a decent person, treat people, (regardless of whether they drive or ride) with respect. They're all people afterall. They might just be having a bad hair day like I do sometimes. I'd hate to be judged by the things I did on my worst day

---

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

In some countries, the heaviest vehicle is legally responsible if a collision occurs. It's thought that the heavier the vehicle, the more dangerous it is, and thus the more responsibility the operator has. Maybe it should be that way in the USA too

I love how cyclists are treated neither as an automobile nor a pedestrian, but a nothing in between. If you road rage a car, you go to jail for assault. If you road rage a pedestrian, you go to jail for attempted murder. If you road rage a bike, well, no big deal. It blows my mind that you can smoke a JUDGE on a bike and get an equivalent fine of running a red light. Not sure what's more fucked up, that or smoking four people while drunk and getting probation as a result of a legal defence that you were too rich to know right from wrong.

+1.

I'll add that for my local demographic and situation (less traffic, lower income, not in as much of a hurry) my greatest ear is not impatient drivers, but some old person with no depth perception that probably lacks the skill set, depth perception and reflexes to drive a car over 15mph and therefore should't be driving anymore, nails me on a open road with no traffic.

I feel safest early in the morning when there's just a handful of early AM commuters or early weekend morning when joe farmer is just out taking his time running errands. Riding outdoors from 8AM-4AM is pretty risky on weekdays. And from about 10AM-5AM on weekends (I give drunks an extra hour to get home on weekends)

---

TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

My counter to that argument would come from my sailing experience. If you're on a 30' sailboat, you always give way to large, less manueverable vessels, like oil tankers or aircraft carriers...

Mark

In some countries, the heaviest vehicle is legally responsible if a collision occurs.

Bleeding heart, liberal, socialist countries no doubt... ;)

Here in Merica, we have natural law like God intended. Small vehicles git the fuck outta the way of big ones, unless they wanna git run over!! Damn straight!

In Texas there are separate traffic laws for Suburbans.

(I'm color blind but I did my best to pick pink).

I am more than willing to put my cycling skills up against almost anyone (for those who claim that I am not a real cyclist).

I spent 15 years riding outside almost year around (in the midwest). Last year I made the switch to 90% trainer and it is the BEST thing that I could have done. My cycling has improved more than I could have imagined.

If you dont want to ride on a trainer.. that is fine. Typical Slowtwitch crap of if you dont agree you bash the person who posts it.

I think the anti bike lane signs around Barrington Hills are acting to instigate aggressive behavior from motorists. I mean the logo is a bicycle with a slash through it for crying out loud. I've ridden through there a lot over the years (both on group rides and solo) and the behavior is getting to the point where it now feels unsafe. Case in point...riding solo through there a couple days ago I come to a four way stop. I come to a full stop, unclip and put my foot down. A driver coming from the other direction (I'd guess a 60 year old) slow rolls the stop sign and yells at me "get off our roads". It was the oddest thing. I think in his mind he'd be justified running me off the road since, well...it's "their" roads.

Though, apparently, some in BH city government wanted "us" to pay for "their" roads, since that was the reason why they were even considering adding bike lanes to a few roads.

Are there cyclists who are part of the problem? Yes.

Are there motorists who are part of the problem? Yes

You see this in every population or large group - some don't get it. Some think the world revolves around them. You see this level of entitlement, selfishness particularly on the roads from many users - motorists, cyclists, even pedestrians.

The issue and the one that does tip one would hope a significant responsibility back into the hands of motorists, is the physics of it all. Any contact, between motor vehicle and cyclists, will almost ALWAYS turn out much worse, up to the point of being fatal for the cyclists. The cyclists, are EXTRAORDINARILY vulnerable. Yet, from the actions and behaviors, of many motorists, way beyond the aforementioned bad apples, drivers don't seem to understand the basic laws of physics around this. How else to explain why so many motorists squeeze through that narrow gap between rider and yellow line leaving scant inches to spare. They precision drive for a living? They know the road is perfectly smooth ahead of the cyclist? They know the cyclist is a pro and can hold his/her line?

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Good response -- several years ago at Ride the Rockies in CO- the moto cop who was in charge was giving his pre race brief- the one point that has stuck with me since then is quite simple: The one with the most lug nuts - wins.

---

Graham Wilson
USAT Level III Elite Coach
http://www.thewilsongroup.biz