The S2 is identical in aero performance, not sure why you'd pay extra for the S3.

For all practical purposes you are correct, but the S3 does have a more aero looking fork than on the S2. I believe its stiffer also. But the S2 is the bargain in the line, imho.

You could always take advantage of the dollar and buy from a shop in Canada. I believe its $1.32 now, and you can possibly avoid import taxes if you are lucky.

Thanks. It's interesting you both mention the S2. I was/am still on the fence between those two bikes. As a matter of fact, I had the shop run the numbers for both the S3 and the S2. I can get out of the door with the 2015 S2 for $2485.

The differences between the S2 and S3 are not insignificant imo; 105 --> ultegra, better wheels, better saddle, better fork (though this is less of a selling point for me).

I can argue and justify either side of the S2 / S3 debate. When I posed, I was kinda sold on the S3 - I can resell myself on the S2 with zero effort.

The question really comes down to the price and timing of the purchase. Am I likely to save a few hundred more bucks by waiting a few more months? is an S2 OTD for under $2500 as good as I think it is?

Re: shopping from Canada, that's an interesting idea, thanks. If the prices come out to be close enough, I'll buy local for all the standard reasons. If I can get out of the door for a few hundred cheaper by buying from our northern friends, I may need to go that route.

All you need is race wheels and saddle of your choice and the S2 is a killer. Or - go S3 frameset and build exactly what you want. I do believe that I've read that the S3 fork is quite different and I'm not sure if the S2 comes with the two position seatpost but really, its a great bike for the money. If you're racing you're not going to notice much difference between 105/Ultegra either - except that its a little cheaper to maintain when things break. And assuming that you get the 11 speed 105. The cheaper S2s have 10 speed 105.

Better crankset, better cassette, better chain... Although I disagree with you about the saddle. My S5 came with the Antares and it was the first thing that never even went on the bike.

Generally speaking, the fall is probably the best time to buy any bike. Cervelo and other companies have removed "model years" from their lineups which effectively means that LBS don't really have "model year closeouts" or whatever. But the S3 likely won't see a true price drop for quite some time, if it does. When it does, it will likely be because something has changed.

It's 11-speed 105, wheels are probably likely the first major component upgrade you make anyway, no opinion on the saddle, and the fork has the same aero performance, despite being more expensive to manufacture.

As to currency arbitrage, Canadian VAT in BC/Ontario are both significantly higher than US sales and use tax rates and your chances of getting the spot forex exchange rate from your bank is pretty low (i.e., you'll get less CAD for your USD than the market rate indicates), and many credit/debit cards charge foreign transaction fees. It may still make sense but may not be as lucrative as you think.

James, are you really implying that those offer a performance advantage? ;).

And yeah, both the S2 and S3 have recently been updated, so refresh timeline is probably a couple years at least.

My experience with my S2


I bought my S2 at the beginning of 2014, that was the 105 10sp version. The 10sp was an ok groupset, but new 11sp 105 is fantastic.

- First I upgraded the wheels to Dura Ace 9000 C24. This makes it quite a light bike, really.
- Then I changed the saddle, which is obviously just a personal preference thing.
- Then I upgraded to Ultegra di2, which took it to a whole new level.

It's an awesome bike, turns a lot of heads, handles just about anything. I've hit plenty pavé and gravé around England on it, taken it to the Alps (beat all my mates on their lightweight bikes up the Col de la Colombiere!), and took it to Mallorca where it was excellent.

It also has a better paint job than the S3. Much prefer the black/blue.

I couldn't be happier with it.

Things to note about the S2
- The FSA gossamer brakes are absolutely awful. You'll have to swap those out right away. I got rid of them from my P2 as well and immediately noticed a difference.
- The FSA crankset isn't much good either. I noticed a big improvement when I switched to Shimano, and so got rid of the FSA on my P2 as well, which also improved.
- It does have the dual position seatpost, which helps with adjustability. I switched from one position to another as my flexibility improved.


My advice
- If money is a factor, go for the S2. It sits just at that price point where diminishing marginal returns starts to kick in.
- If you want better spec than the S2 offers, but money is still a factor, buy the S2, get an Ultegra di2 groupset off wiggle (going real cheap atm). Then sell the 105 gruppo.
- If money isn't an issue and you want a ready made hassle free superbike, get the S3.

- If you're still really not sure, just get the S2, buy some good wheels, then ride it for awhile and decide if you want to upgrade the groupset later (bear in mind that 11sp 105 is very good).


Best of luck. Either way you're going to end up with a nice bike.

No, if money wasn't an issue, you'd get an S5 and take the free watts.

Just curious, which way did you decide to go on this?

I appreciate everyone's responses. I have fallen into one of the common debates - in my case the S2 vs AR5 debate. I've basically sold myself off of the S3, in favor of an S2/AR5 + Flo60 wheels and a new saddle. I'll be going back to the shop today to talk with the salesman who set me the good prices for the Cervelos and see what he can do on the AR5 (his colleague two nights ago couldn't get me quite the same level of discount vs the % discount on the Cervelos).

If he can get me into the AR5 at the same % discount (and his colleague got close already), then I'm likely to go the AR5 route. Probably schedule a fitting for next week...

What about Giant Propel??
I own an older Cervelo S3, love it. But if I were getting a new bike today, I'd grab a Propel. Better value for the 3k models because they come with aero wheels, and are very sharp looking bikes (and aero).

Haven't seen you 'round these parts for a while :)

Hey man, it's only money. Buy the best setup you can fit on your credit card and worry about the consequences later.

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Eliot
blog thing - strava thing

The only problem with that is that you might end up riding a Felt. :)

One thing which would put me off the Propel is that (unless they've changed it since) the integrated rear brake can rub the tyre. My cousin has one and its a pain - no real solution as yet either. Fantastic bike otherwise but when the Cervelo's manage just fine with regular brakes - its a real weakness for the Giant.

E, great to see your name pop up here. I spent some time cruising through your blog - incredible. It would be good to catch up one of these days. Give my best to E2.

While I want to do my patriotic duty and max out my credit card, I opted for the AR5 and will likely put some aero wheels on it asap. Went in for a fit yesterday and the 56 was like a glove. Should take delivery in the next few days.

 The tire would have to be really tall or over 25 to rube the cable on a propel.

23mm Continental GP4s when I saw it.

I purchased a new S3 frameset plus a lightly used Rotor 3D+ crankset for $2300 CAD shipped to my door. Best deal by far that I could find. Saved ~$800 just on the frameset alone. So definitely deals out there if you can find the right shop in CAN to work with.

One of the shops here in SoCal put the S3's on sale for 25% off like 3-4 weeks after I bought my S2. This was in November of last year and they were clearing out the 2014's on the floor. I probably would've bought the S3 at that price ($700 more than I paid for the S2 w/ tax) but I was better off putting the money towards Zipp 404's (which I recently bought).

Thanks dude! Congrats on the new ride and take care of yourself!

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Eliot
blog thing - strava thing

Dunbar - which shop in SoCal? I'm looking for a good bike shop. Thanks.