Another blah feeling once jumping in, too many of those lately. The only silver lining if there is one, my blah times are a lot better than fresh times from several months ago. So kind of like the stock market I suppose, following the general trend and have to ignore day to day fluctuations... So did something where times seemed unimportant:

6x500 as(500 free/breast@9;00--8;05/500 free/back@8;00--7;42/500IM kick@10;00--9;45/500 buoy@7;30--6;52/ 2 500 pulls@7;00(6;24/6;26)
9x50 as 50 buoy@1;00/50fly@1;00/50IM kick@1;20- flys 39/39/38-- kicks-1;02/1;00/54 buoys-41's
3450SCY in 58 minutes

3200 SCY

300S/200K/100P
4x[50,100, 50 10 sec rest] on 30 sec
3x[200 on 30 sec, 6x50 on 10 sec] did FR, BK, BK
backstroke felt good,,did the 200s in 2:52-3 and 50s in 42s
300P in 3:52

Sup guys,
quick report on my weekly speed sesh...

Monty I (and my buddy) both are in the same boat as you. I think we both expected today with more rest and less overall sprinting that we would "bust out" and rip off some great times. Just wasnt to be I guess. It was, however, much like you described... faster than I was ever going before we started this but certainly not what we expected.

MyMainSet: (insta acct)

2 x 100 on 3min max
1 x 50 max
300 easy
doing 3 rounds of this.

Expectation 55s, 56s--- reality
57, 59, 58,59, 58, 59
The 50s-- expectation 25s-- reality
27,28, 26

So certainly not awful and I am quite happy w the progression. My buddy posted similar times to what we would do when we had 100s on 1:45. So to that end, kind of odd. More rest did not equal exceptionally faster times.
This was a big challenge tho and I fought for each effort.
We finished per usual w our 6 x 25 max KICK on :50
No ideas on times here bc we didnt have boards and so i was doing a lot more underwater dolphin kicks compared to never doing any really. And kicking on your back hits those hamstrings a bit differently than with the board.

I also tried my new Fenix 6 solar pro out... I was hitting split buttons for intervals but at the end it only had me at 1750 yards with none of my splits. IT was aggravating for sure. And I dont normally swim w a watch but thought I might in my race to get it all on strava. Still up for debate. Ha...

Ok all for now. keep swimming fast !! it helps

daved

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http://www.theundergroundcoach.com

4 practices in six days. All about 3200yds. Sunday I did a pull set of 12 100s 4/1:30, 4/1:20 and 4/2:00. The last four were 05, 04,,04 and 04 similar to last time. Last night I did some 100 IMs last four were 22,21, 19, 18 so a little bit of a breakthrough as I got under 1:20 even tired on the middle of a set. I’m about ready to take on Monty next I’ll do some 200s and see if I can get down under 2:45

first swim since the outdoor pools closed in Sept last year.. indoor pools were open with lane restrictions, but I wasn't happy until vaccinated..

also had severe L biceps tendonitis, could not lift arm overhead or do much of anything with it. Suspect the cause of this was actually stopping swimming and gym work, had a number of gym exercises targeted at this same shoulder which had an impingement ten years ago. Not doing those and not swimming, next time in the outdoor pool had a strange new pain in the bicep which steadily got worse until the arm was barely usable.
Six weeks of physical therapy and an hour of PT exercises every day, got to pain free, and back in the pool ! so happy ! !

took it easy, 30min doing a bunch of 50s with 10sec rest, mix of strokes. Bicep a little tender but no major pain and no pain next day, feels like a win.
Fastest 50 was 35s going moderate/easy, it's a start..

Thursday - total rest day
today - 7.1 mi run (2 x 5k @ 9:05/mi) and 1500m straight swim

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

I finally gave up on waiting for the ocean to stop being soooo cold and went back to the pool this week.

In 29+ years, the ocean has not been this cold for this long. Quoting our trusty open water swim group leader, "On 11/8/20 the water temperature was 55°, which was typical for that time of the year and it would be expected to hang around 55° until spring winds would push the water temperature into the low 50's for a few weeks. Well, one week later on 11/15/20 the water was 49°, has it has not been above 52° since then, though it has dropped as low as 47°. That makes this the longest run of cold water I know of since starting to swim at Avila Beach in 1992."

He measures temp and takes attendance every swim since 1992, so I trust his words.

I can handle 50°F for a few weeks but not 6 MONTHS! I bailed around the start of the 100/100 and only went back in once. I'd need a 5/4/3 wetsuit for these temps and I just don't want to acclimate or buy a heavier wetsuit.

So, I finally decided to stare at the black line and get some fitness back in the hopes that the ocean gets back up above 55°F someday soon.

2,000 yards on Monday. 2,200 yards Wednesday.

---

Hillary Trout
San Luis Obispo, CA

Your trip is short. Make the most of it.
https://www.slogoing.net/

SUPER EASY 3200 scy today.

Other than that, not much to report.
I did do 3x 100 "tempo" --- just to move a bit faster than my slow recovery. I was 1:10, 108 106 on them and they felt very easy. So i am ok w that.

daved

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http://www.theundergroundcoach.com

First swim in about 6 or 7 years. Felt great to get back in the water. Hopefully following this thread and posting my swims will help keep me focused and hit some big PR's soon.

2000 SCY mix of 50's, 100's, and breast stroke.

SUPER EASY 3200 scy today.///

Ya, sometimes you just have those days where your first 100 of a warmup is 5 seconds slower than normal, that was me today. But you get in and go until something either feels better, or just slog through. Took me 10 100's to get to a relaxed 1;19, so decided free was not my stroke today. Made up a really fun stroke set and finally came around to just feeling ok, which is way better than the blah at the beginning.


10x100s@1;40(1;33 to 1;19)
5x(50/50buoy@;50/50IM kick@1;20/50 fly hard@1;00) Buoys all 40 to 38's/ kicks57 to 54/ Fly's-37/36/36/35/34)
4x(50/50 buoy@;50/1;00/50 IM kick@1;20/100IM @2;00) buoys 40 to 39's/ kicks55's- IM's(1;20/1;20/1;20/1;18)
150pull easy(1;54)
3150SCY in 59 minutes

Saturday: 6 mi bike, 7 mi run, 1000 m straight swim

run had 4.2 mi @ 8:57/mi

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

2,000 SCY today. Nice and easy, sets of 50 and 100’s.

What a difference a day and a cool/low pool can make! IT just goes to show that slogging through a couple/few off days, will finally get you to the next plane up in a work out season. Did all 50's and a few 100's yesterday, so when Dan said lets do 400's today, I was all over it. We had quite the race on #3, my IM against his free, and two new workout PR's for me today;

100s/50k
6x400@6;00, #3@7;00-(5;31swim/5;27buoy/5;53IM--New workout PR for year(1;29/1;32/1;37/1;15/pulls-5;12/5;02/4;42--1;11/1;12/1;11/1;08 new workout PR for year)
100IM kick
9x50 as 50/50 buoy@;50/1;00/50fly@1;00 buoys-40's/fly's(38/38/36)
3100SCY in 59 minutes

Got really gassed after 400IM, Dan pushed me to that 1;15 free finish, doing 36 or so last 50. But cold water and oxygen really are my friends, so took just one easy 400 pull to recover, and be ready for another really hard effort...

Hey Monty congrats on that 400IM. I assume from a push off? At Nationals in 2019, one of the local 60-64's Andy Ritchie went 5:33 for 400IM scm. To put it in perspective, Andy also went 4:29 as a 17 year old at the 1976 Montreal Olympics finishing 7th. He was later "surpassed" by Alex Baumann (400IM and 200IM gold medalist and world record holder at LA Olympics).....took a 40 year hiatus from sport and got back in during his 60's!

so there is a 400IM time to chase !!!! But are you 65-69 now?

so there is a 400IM time to chase !!!! But are you 65-69 now? //

Yes 65+, and unfortunately 65 is not the new 50 when it comes to swimming. I would say one loses 20/25 or so seconds in the 400IM from 60 to 65, and the fields almost disappear except for the biggest meets(they die off or just cannot finish that race anymore)..This workout swim I did was not near all out, except for the end catching Dan. I haven't swam an entire 100 fly as of yet, did 75 yards today with one kick, kick pull to level off the HR. I'm hoping(and guessing) that I can beat your friends time pretty handily, but of course I'm doing SCY and his is SCM, so he is kicking my ass as a youngster. But my guess that I'm way closer to my PR than he is, and that is my advantage as we all age up. I just slow down less than everyone else, and of course keep living...

Hi Monty, yeah, his 4:29 was outer worldly as a 17 year old. Andy had a long hiatus out of sport due to Moscow Olympic boycott and then moving on with life before LA games. So I think he would have lost a lot of cardio. Your time in a workout with no taper and no head to head competetion is amazing. Was slowman doing a 400 free beside you?

My 400IM scm was 6:55 at nationals 2019. I think I can take that down closer to 6:40 as my breast stroke is getting better and this was bleeding all kinds of time for me. 6:40 would be sub 6 scy. But was are stuck in lockdown, so I am focused on my 5000m running track time. I would like to see if I can get under 22 minutes in a few weeks at the track. By the time I get to do a swim meet again, I will be 57 unless we have any this fall.

Friday did a set of 4 200iM and found out my endurance wasn’t quite there yet. 252, 52,55,53 a little disappointed. My daughter told me I need to do 400s if I’m training to do a 200. Saturday I did a practice with everything on pretty tight intervals

8 100s 1:30

8 50s 2x 1st 8 odds drill/free with drill IM order on 1:00 evens stroke/free on :50
2nd 8 the same except I dropped both intervals 5 seconds

4 300IM 1 and 3 swim, 2 was a kick with 15 seconds rest at each 75 and 4 was pull. 1 was 4:28 and 3 was 4:18, felt better than Friday. Interval was 30-45 seconds rest. Fly held together well and I think I’m ready to try some 400s

400 pull 75fr/25br

They posted the event schedule for nationals it’s a five day meet with the first two days distance events. I’m thinking about it there aren’t any other meets local I may just go

Not sure about your daughter's hypothesis of doing 400 IM's to get ready for a 200, for me it is the exact opposite. At our age we need speed for that 200, and believe me, 400IM's in workouts anymore are not about speed. I feel like I always have the endurance for a fast 200, and that is built off my 100 speed. But she is young and doesnt really know the problems of the 55+ AG's..

So great they have a schedule for nationals, and I see they put up the qualifying times too. For all you fishes out there, you can have a look and see how you stack up for the US masters nationals. It was historic for me seeing these times, first time in my life that I actually can qualify for every single event, in every single stroke. Never happened before, usually the 1650 or some backstroke event would trip me up. SO hope for everyone, just live long enough and keep swimming!!

https://www.usms.org/...nationals%20nqts.pdf

I like the 5 day schedule, although I have 3 events in one day on the 3rd day, so may have to punt to another event on some other day. 200 breast and fly with 100IM all within 5 overall events might just be too big an ask of my old body. But I love all those races, and those 200's are among my best as far as scoring..

What events are you thinking about swimming T? And now that this meet is up, who else out there might be thinking about it? I have to decide how I want to go there, if family will go, etc. But most likely be going solo and looking for some travel partners, perhaps we can use this thread to organize an ST gathering too..

Thanks for posting these. I was looking at the distance free, fly and IM events and saw that I qualied or was very close to many of them in 55-59. Then I saw that I was looking at W55-59 and I basically qualify for zero in M55-59. But in my country anyone can go to masters nationals since we are 1/10th the size in general population and probably less than 1/10th the number of swimmers

You need to keep going until you are my age, as you can see, the times drop off precipitously. I had said earlier that I figured the drop-off in the 400IM from 60 to 65 was 20/25 seconds, but it is actually 42 seconds in qualifying times, and another 51 more when you get to 70. SO hang in there Dev, just dont slow down!!

At our nationals I believe you get to swim 3 events without qualifying, and anymore you have to meet those times. But I would imagine that this could be the fastest overall masters meet in the world, like our NCAA's is really the fastest meet. The may not have the overall fastest person in the world(but often do), its just the depth of field that makes it a tough meet, and that dictates the qualifying times each year. Hell, there is a guy that was in my new AG 65+ that went 4;30 400IM, that is just plain crazy..

yeah, correct. Everyone slows down, and the only way for a new comer like me, is to just combat physiological slowdown with technical gains. I think several of the times in 65-69 are only in reach if I keep my health on track AND technically improve. The former is a crap shoot of who your parents are and nothing bad happening like car or bike accidents or disease hitting early. The latter, is up to me.

Nice job. I’m interested in the difference between your pull and IM times. The pull time seems really fast compared to the IM. I can’t recall—did you swim in club/college? I know your freestyle is very fast and always has been.
Do you think the need to kick in fly and back is what differentiates it? (Kicking hard is probably tougher at altitude than pulling.) I’m coming from the perspective that my 400 pull time wouldn’t beat yours by much, but would expect to take the 400IM out in like 1:10, then 1:20 backstroke. Breast? That’s another matter...
I ask this in full respect for your capabilities as a swimmer.

I had already booked a hotel a while back. I just looked at car rentals ugggh. It’s not pretty. Got a Wednesday to Sunday for $412 on enterprise....they pick the car. Back up on hertz was a midsize for $487. Everything is cancellable so I can change later Airfare is pretty high also $450+ can’t cancel that one so I’m waiting. I’d suggest leaving the family at home i went to Arizona nationals by myself it’s more relaxing to be on your own schedule

Swim today 3300, main set was some 50s, 4 x 50 with an easy 50 free in betweeen. 1st 4 fly at 50, then 4 bk at 55, br at 1:00 and frees at 45. Finished with 700yds pulling 75fr/25br. I’m focusing on less rest and trying to swim fast when I’m tired. Hoping my base gets built up by doing this

Nice job. I’m interested in the difference between your pull and IM times. The pull time seems really fast compared to the IM. I can’t recall—did you swim in club/college? I know your freestyle is very fast and always has been.
Do you think the need to kick in fly and back is what differentiates it? (Kicking hard is probably tougher at altitude than pulling.) I’m coming from the perspective that my 400 pull time wouldn’t beat yours by much, but would expect to take the 400IM out in like 1:10, then 1:20 backstroke. Breast? That’s another matter...
I ask this in full respect for your capabilities as a swimmer. //

Thanks for the props, and absolutely no offense taken, as I'm as perplexed as you are. When I was in my early 50's, I remember doing a big set of 10x400@ 6;00, two IM, then an easy free. Started at about 5;25 and descended to 5;01. Like you now, it was so easy to go out under 1;10 for the fly, about 1;20 for the back, 1;22 for the breast, and then sub 1;10 for the free. Just hard workout swims that seemed to just flow. I dont know how old you are, but something really bad happens around late 50's(for me at least) and fly no longer can be just floated through in some reasonably fast time. It is a major struggle and requires about double the effort it used to take, and ones heart rate just soars doing an entire 100 strong. That is the death of my 400IM in workouts, so now they are like holidays, I have to plan them well in advance, and psyche up to just attempt a strong swim..And I was always a stroke guy too, not a freestyler!!


The good(I guess great actually) is that meager 5;53 workout swim I did would be a top 3 time in the nation at this moment, and if I can eventually get my shaved and tapered race time to the time I started that 10 by set at a dozen years ago, I could actually on a good day finally, maybe win a masters title. So it appears whatever I'm feeling and going through, all my contemporaries are feeling the same, even worse once you get to 200 fly and 400IM. And I like to pull a lot more these days because I'm doing a lot of stroke, and you are right in that it takes an inordinate amount of legs to keep those strokes moving fast, so they need maximum rest before/after hard efforts. A 200 fly is like doing a 8 minute plank for me, both quite elusive at the moment.


So to look for any consistency in my swim workouts, you first have to consider my age. I never thought I would be saying that, but aging in swimming is not equal, and fly is the first and most drastic casualty. Only good news there is I think I can still break a 29 for a 50, but the old add on formulas to get 100/200 times are out the window for good now. I used to be able to predict just about exactly what I could do in a 100/200 fly by what I did in the 50, and the 200/400IM according to the 100IM. It is now a big mystery, and the only way I'm ever gonna know with any precision, is to swim the dam races, races that I really used to love too..


Whats your background, ex college swimmer, where, what events? I swam at JC and college, but was the best workout swimmer who didnt make the national team. I found my niche when they invented this race that took 2 to 10 hours of just plain grinding, just like those old workouts...(-;

I had already booked a hotel a while back. I just looked at car rentals ugggh.//

Glad you are already looking into this, and yes, probably not a great family trip to sit around the pool all day watching boring dad swim. I have some mileage still built up too for flights, and even some $$ that were refunded right before Covid I have to use, so will look to see if those planes fly to Greensboro. I do like that they added the extra day, I dont think I ever got to swim the 400IM alone in one day before. I might even talk myself into the 1000 too, although I hate giving up a stroke event for that. Hope nothing bad happens there(like Michigan) and we get the chance to worry about little things about what events to swim...