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Another "help me KQ" thread
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Much like the "help me with my fit" threads, the "long shot at Kona" threads seem to be the theme of the month. Normally I wouldn't bite, but like most people, I want to make sure all of my bases are covered in order to have the best possible chance. I'm hoping this isn't too hard since I feel like I'm on the right path here.

History:
This will be my fifth season doing triathlon. Before doing triathlon, I ran a handful of marathons (8). My best was a 3:09, but none of them were done very seriously. I swam in high school, and I'm extremely comfortable in the water.
Season 1 (2010): Warmup to tris. Nothing serious.
S2: Three 70.3's - Qualified for WC.
S3: Three 70.3's + IMFL (10:36)
S4: IMLT (11:16 - 6th in AG - M25-29)
S5: Current season - Gearing up for IMLT again. Raced collegiate nationals (2:02) and Alcatraz (2:31).

My goal for this year is to qualify at IM Lake Tahoe which is currently 14 weeks out. My training currently consists of: Swim 2-3 times per week. Bike as much as possible with two big rides on the weekends. Run every day with a long run on Wednesday. I just started my long runs this week (14.5 miles @6:28/mi.) I have been putting in back-to-back long rides on the weekends for a few weeks now, but I wanted to delay the long runs as long as possible since that's the greatest source of injury for me.

Swim:
As I said before, I'm very comfortable in the water. I did a 59:59 at Florida in 2012 and a 1:06 at Tahoe. The 1:06 at Tahoe was due to cold (sleeveless wetsuit) and navigation issues (steam coming off the water.) I don't anticipate the weather being as bad this year, but if it is, naturally I'm a bit more ready for it since I've been through the worst last year. I also have full sleeve wetsuit this year.

Bike:
This has notoriously been my weakness which is why I've been putting as much time into this as possible. I do have a power meter, but I probably don't use it as much as I should (I feel like this will most likely be the biggest source of feedback.)

Run:
This is probably my strength. I have a long history of running. More recently, my half marathon PR is a 1:20:20 and my 10k PR is 37:40 (this was coming off back to back riding days 85mi + 90mi, so my legs were a bit tired.)

Lifestyle:
Flexible job, no girlfriend, no kids. I pretty much have the ideal lifestyle for this kind of stuff.

Coach:
Mostly just consulting with my college triathlon coaches, but I don't have a personal coach. My pride tells me that I want to do this on my own. I also would prefer to save a bit of money if possible.

Ace in the hole: I feel like my ace in the hole is a training camp five weeks out. It's a 12 day camp (finishing three weeks out from the race) where we'll be running, biking, and swimming as much as possible. I've been cautioned that the daily average on the bike is ~90 miles. If I can survive/complete this camp and recover in time, I feel like this is the greatest possible boost for Tahoe. Quite honestly, this camp is more scary than the race itself.

Vitals:
Age - 29 (last year in M25-29 - terrified of aging up which is why I am trying hard to KQ this year.)
Height - 5'10.5"
Weight - ~152-155

Why Tahoe:
I feel like the course suits me well. Elevation doesn't seem to have much of an effect on me. It's a non-saltwater swim (I hate the ocean.) The bike is hilly which favors my average or slightly smaller frame. The run course is flat, and I'm notoriously slow at running hills. It's almost guaranteed not to be hot. I don't do well in the heat. Lastly, I have access to the Tahoe course. It's just a few hours drive from where I live, so I'm planning to get up there as many weekends as possible.

So what are your thoughts? What am I missing? I know there are some obvious things like learning how to pace myself with power and nutrition. Anything else?

As always, thanks a ton!
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Re: Another "help me KQ" thread [krez] [ In reply to ]
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If you decide to go the coaching route, DON'T hire this guys coach!

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...t_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
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Re: Another "help me KQ" thread [krez] [ In reply to ]
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I do think that you can definitely do it. You're not too far off and you've got a strong background. It's good that you're a strong swimmer as that means you will have time to devote to getting stronger on the bike. Looks like you've got good short course speed as well.

My question is what were your bike and run splits at IMFL and IMLT? And did you feel like you underperformed at all/what kind of times/numbers are you looking to hit? And finally what's your training looked like this year so far? Looks like you've been focusing on shorter stuff until now

And also I'd just like to note I think it's interesting that you have problems running hills and with the heat with a smaller frame.
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Re: Another "help me KQ" thread [krez] [ In reply to ]
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Here's my help:

Go faster.

I'll send you a paypal addy for payment later today.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/
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Re: Another "help me KQ" thread [Staz] [ In reply to ]
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Staz wrote:
I do think that you can definitely do it. You're not too far off and you've got a strong background. It's good that you're a strong swimmer as that means you will have time to devote to getting stronger on the bike. Looks like you've got good short course speed as well.

Thanks! The confidence is much appreciated.

Staz wrote:
My question is what were your bike and run splits at IMFL and IMLT? And did you feel like you underperformed at all/what kind of times/numbers are you looking to hit? And finally what's your training looked like this year so far? Looks like you've been focusing on shorter stuff until now

IMFL:
B: 5:19 - Felt good until mile 90 or so.
R: 4:05 - Felt like death coming off the bike. Run/walked for 26.2 miles.
Generally speaking, I had no idea what I was doing, and I was hugely under prepared. If anything, it was an enormous motivator for my next IM.
IMLT:
B: 6:02 - I felt like I rocked this bike ride. I put in a ton of riding leading up to the race (~6 100+ mile rides.) I was pushing the climbs, and I felt like I was still biking at a "modest" IM effort.
R: 3:43 - Felt amazing coming off the bike. I was racing at ~7min mile pace for the first 12 miles. At 13 was when things fell apart. I was prepared to run 7's the entire race, but according to my college coach, my run nutrition was to blame. It was basically non-existent: coke at aid stations since I couldn't stomach anything solid.

Here's a pic of my most recent seven weeks:


Staz wrote:
And also I'd just like to note I think it's interesting that you have problems running hills and with the heat with a smaller frame.

I'm also a bit stumped by this as well. Whenever I run in a group, I'm pushing the pace on the flats and downhills, but as soon as it pitches up, I fall back. I do feel like one missing link in my training is a dedicated hills day.

For full details, I try to keep my strava as accurate as possible: http://www.strava.com/athletes/13634
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Re: Another "help me KQ" thread [krez] [ In reply to ]
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Running hills in an endurance race is about maintaining a nearly constant effort. Runners like to push hills and maintain a steady pace, you need to maintain a steady effort. Ultra runners are a better lot to hang out and run with. They understand endurance running. It's hard to explain to a runner that a marathon isn't a long race and it's actually a relatively fast pace. They think running 8 hours and 80+ miles in a week is a lot of training load. Therefore, they can do a lot more faster running in a week, since they aren't biking another 10-12 hours and swimming 3-5 hours.


If you want to KQ, find a good training plan to get more fit and don;t run with runners so much unless they are going slow. You'll end up running too fast and screw you overall training volume, bike quality and/or get injured.

TO KQ it's simple... sort of:

Option 1:
1) Get really fit and fast. Start wining races and finishing in the top 3-5 in your age group at 70.3 events. Earn your stripes. (You head should start getting really big, and you'll get a little cocky)
2) Execute on race day.

Option 2
1) Get fit and fast enough to get 1st or 2nd in your AG. In the faster age groups, you should be beating some BOP pros (or at least pros that had a bad day)
2) Now you can screw the pooch on execution and still finish in 4th or 5th and get a slot.


TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com
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Re: Another "help me KQ" thread [krez] [ In reply to ]
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You need to learn how to bike hard, apparently.

You're a more than adequate swimmer, and good open runner, so the engine seems to be there, in general.

L rides on the weekend are fine and all, but don't forget the quality. Your goal between now and 3 weeks before the race, should be to get your FTP up as high as possible.

The PM is nothing more than a really expensive bike computer if you don't understand how to use it properly.
For training, AND for racing.

Also make sure your bike position, aeroness and CRR, etc are all optimized.
And make sure your nutrution for bike and run is dialed in during training, and any races prior to your A race.


float , hammer , and jog

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Re: Another "help me KQ" thread [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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This is excellent feedback, and it aligns more or less with what I was thinking. Do you have pointers on how to focus on FTP? I've heard the whole 2x20 tossed around quite a bit, but the details escape me.
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Re: Another "help me KQ" thread [krez] [ In reply to ]
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krez wrote:
This is excellent feedback, and it aligns more or less with what I was thinking. Do you have pointers on how to focus on FTP? I've heard the whole 2x20 tossed around quite a bit, but the details escape me.

2*20 is easy....warm up for about 10-15 mins, throw in some short 1 min intervals to get legs warm and then do your Sweet spot work (86-94% of your FTP) for 20 min. 5 min easy then launch into another one. Rinse and repeat. This is a good core ride during the week, great to do on the trainer. You could change it up a bit, maybe do 4*10 but at slightly higher pace, more at 95-99%. Maybe on the weekend, do one longer ride at an easier pace to work on nutrition and one harder (shorter) ride adding more SS work (like 20*3, then 20*4, then 20*5).
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Re: Another "help me KQ" thread [blueraider_mike] [ In reply to ]
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blueraider_mike wrote:
krez wrote:
This is excellent feedback, and it aligns more or less with what I was thinking. Do you have pointers on how to focus on FTP? I've heard the whole 2x20 tossed around quite a bit, but the details escape me.


2*20 is easy....warm up for about 10-15 mins, throw in some short 1 min intervals to get legs warm and then do your Sweet spot work (86-94% of your FTP) for 20 min. 5 min easy then launch into another one. Rinse and repeat. This is a good core ride during the week, great to do on the trainer. You could change it up a bit, maybe do 4*10 but at slightly higher pace, more at 95-99%. Maybe on the weekend, do one longer ride at an easier pace to work on nutrition and one harder (shorter) ride adding more SS work (like 20*3, then 20*4, then 20*5).

You can also achieve this in a less structured manner, simply by ABP - Always Be Pushing.
Example: I have a ~2hr, 42m rolling hilly loop I'd do regularly when training for HIM or IM. I'd sit on .80-85 on the flats (HIM intensity), then hit it hard on any climbs (at or above FTP - think of Strava-whoring for KOM's, but this was back before Al Gore had invented Strava), so the end result of these rides would usually fall in the .87-.91 range.

The shorter the ride, the harder you ride.
And even in longer training rides, there's no reason to not hammer up hills, etc - worst case, you blow up, and put that cell phone to good use.


float , hammer , and jog

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Re: Another "help me KQ" thread [krez] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like you are about to fry yourself. The idea is not to do as much as possible, it is to improve. You should see signs of improving every week but what you describe would ruin all but the most elite's form. You do not need to do 14 miles at 6:28 pace or do a camp of 90 miles a day.

I fully understand not wanting a coach(humble-brag alert and apology, I KQ'd twice self coached and that was half the fun for me), BUT you should at least follow a set program, and if you are getting tired instead faster you bit off too much so take all that spare time you have and start sleeping.

All that being said, go for it and good luck.
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Re: Another "help me KQ" thread [jjh] [ In reply to ]
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jjh wrote:
BUT you should at least follow a set program

Do you have any recommendations? I feel like I'm in a position to attempt a particularly challenging program since I have a lot of spare time and a reasonably solid background.
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Re: Another "help me KQ" thread [krez] [ In reply to ]
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I hate to suggest it, but hire a coach. Getting tidbits of advice from a bunch of different people is a recipe for disaster.
It will be the best money you could spend at this point.

If you ignore all that advice abovr the one thing I would say is every fourth week back off dramatically, maybe all the way down to five or six hours of training, with two days completely off in a row.
That week will take more discipline than all the other ones.
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Re: Another "help me KQ" thread [krez] [ In reply to ]
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I'm going to Kona for the third time this year but I'm really old and what do I know?

that said--there are three things you need to do differently before IMLT (which I did last year as well and qualified at):

1. Each week ride one really long ride--I'm saying 100-125 miles...the longer the better...don't worry about the pace---don't bs it but just get it done.

2. Each week ride one "mid" distance ride of 60-80 miles where you put 30-60 miles down at IM pace....After you are done then run 3-8 miles at your desired IM pace.

3. Each week do 1 session where you spend 40 minutes or so smashing it--I mean 2X20 at threshold, or 4X10, or 5X8 or, 8X5, or 20X2...just throw some rest in-between each hard segment.

this will give you 200-250 miles/week and all the endurance and speed you need. Plus your run will kill it...

Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.
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Re: Another "help me KQ" thread [rcmioga] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Randy. I've been following your blog for a long time, and I genuinely respect your approach to the sport. Consider your advice heeded!
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Re: Another "help me KQ" thread [krez] [ In reply to ]
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krez wrote:
(I hate the ocean.) .... I don't do well in the heat.
... So what are your thoughts? What am I missing?
... the Kona swim is in the ocean, and it's super hot in the middle of all that lava. :O

/Howie Nordström
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Re: Another "help me KQ" thread [lllusion] [ In reply to ]
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lllusion wrote:
krez wrote:
(I hate the ocean.) .... I don't do well in the heat.
... So what are your thoughts? What am I missing?

... the Kona swim is in the ocean, and it's super hot in the middle of all that lava. :O

:D I'm going to have to suck it up for that one!
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Re: Another "help me KQ" thread [krez] [ In reply to ]
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krez wrote:
lllusion wrote:
krez wrote:
(I hate the ocean.) .... I don't do well in the heat.

... So what are your thoughts? What am I missing?

... the Kona swim is in the ocean, and it's super hot in the middle of all that lava. :O


:D I'm going to have to suck it up for that one!

...and train for it.


I don't find the water overly salinated on the west side of Hawai'i, and I never get that sticky, salty feeling on my skin there (just soft baby smooth). There's lots of reef life to look at while training!


But you gotta get your body ready for the heat ahead of time. There were some recent ST suggestions for heat training, and you can look up tips from ultramarathoners training for Badwater. You also have to plan your nutrition and electrolytes for that kind of heat.


Personally, I find Kona and the Kohala Coast a wonderful place to train. If you have the time and can find reasonably priced lodging go over weeks or more early and acclimatize.

/Howie Nordström
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Re: Another "help me KQ" thread [krez] [ In reply to ]
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I'm honored and flattered. Go get it done.

At the Kona IM level--with your skill set and strengths--it's all about the bike---go get it done dude!

Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.
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Re: Another "help me KQ" thread [krez] [ In reply to ]
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Krez,

My input would be:

1. Ditch the run epvery day.
2. Structure week so your long run is sun after sat ride. You have to learn to run on tired legs. 14 at 6:28 is not going to help your IM run.

Good luck.
Albert Boyce
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Re: Another "help me KQ" thread [albertboyce] [ In reply to ]
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albertboyce wrote:
2. Structure week so your long run is sun after sat ride. You have to learn to run on tired legs. 14 at 6:28 is not going to help your IM run.

I understand running on tired legs. What about switching my long run to Mondays? My work is flexible, but it's not so flexible that I can use an entire weekend day for "just a long run." It makes sense to me to use Sat and Sun for bike rides. If not specifically for IM training, two big days would help prep for camp. Running on Monday would be training on *really* tired legs.

Lastly, how is 14 at 6:28 not going to help my IM run? To quote Joe Friel: "Training components that improve economy are intensity and frequency. Training at a high speed or power has been shown to make athletes more economical at all speed and power outputs including the lower range." http://www.trainingbible.com/...fitness-economy.html
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Post deleted by Staz [ In reply to ]
Re: Another "help me KQ" thread [get2T2] [ In reply to ]
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get2T2 wrote:
If you decide to go the coaching route, DON'T hire this guys coach!

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...t_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

And for stay away from Gorillas when you race!
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Re: Another "help me KQ" thread [krez] [ In reply to ]
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krez wrote:
Much like the "help me with my fit" threads, the "long shot at Kona" threads seem to be the theme of the month. Normally I wouldn't bite, but like most people, I want to make sure all of my bases are covered in order to have the best possible chance. I'm hoping this isn't too hard since I feel like I'm on the right path here.

History:
This will be my fifth season doing triathlon. Before doing triathlon, I ran a handful of marathons (8). My best was a 3:09, but none of them were done very seriously. I swam in high school, and I'm extremely comfortable in the water.
Season 1 (2010): Warmup to tris. Nothing serious.
S2: Three 70.3's - Qualified for WC.
S3: Three 70.3's + IMFL (10:36)
S4: IMLT (11:16 - 6th in AG - M25-29)
S5: Current season - Gearing up for IMLT again. Raced collegiate nationals (2:02) and Alcatraz (2:31).

My goal for this year is to qualify at IM Lake Tahoe which is currently 14 weeks out. My training currently consists of: Swim 2-3 times per week. Bike as much as possible with two big rides on the weekends. Run every day with a long run on Wednesday. I just started my long runs this week (14.5 miles @6:28/mi.) I have been putting in back-to-back long rides on the weekends for a few weeks now, but I wanted to delay the long runs as long as possible since that's the greatest source of injury for me.

Swim:
As I said before, I'm very comfortable in the water. I did a 59:59 at Florida in 2012 and a 1:06 at Tahoe. The 1:06 at Tahoe was due to cold (sleeveless wetsuit) and navigation issues (steam coming off the water.) I don't anticipate the weather being as bad this year, but if it is, naturally I'm a bit more ready for it since I've been through the worst last year. I also have full sleeve wetsuit this year.

Bike:
This has notoriously been my weakness which is why I've been putting as much time into this as possible. I do have a power meter, but I probably don't use it as much as I should (I feel like this will most likely be the biggest source of feedback.)

Run:
This is probably my strength. I have a long history of running. More recently, my half marathon PR is a 1:20:20 and my 10k PR is 37:40 (this was coming off back to back riding days 85mi + 90mi, so my legs were a bit tired.)

Lifestyle:
Flexible job, no girlfriend, no kids. I pretty much have the ideal lifestyle for this kind of stuff.

Coach:
Mostly just consulting with my college triathlon coaches, but I don't have a personal coach. My pride tells me that I want to do this on my own. I also would prefer to save a bit of money if possible.

Ace in the hole: I feel like my ace in the hole is a training camp five weeks out. It's a 12 day camp (finishing three weeks out from the race) where we'll be running, biking, and swimming as much as possible. I've been cautioned that the daily average on the bike is ~90 miles. If I can survive/complete this camp and recover in time, I feel like this is the greatest possible boost for Tahoe. Quite honestly, this camp is more scary than the race itself.

Vitals:
Age - 29 (last year in M25-29 - terrified of aging up which is why I am trying hard to KQ this year.)
Height - 5'10.5"
Weight - ~152-155

Why Tahoe:
I feel like the course suits me well. Elevation doesn't seem to have much of an effect on me. It's a non-saltwater swim (I hate the ocean.) The bike is hilly which favors my average or slightly smaller frame. The run course is flat, and I'm notoriously slow at running hills. It's almost guaranteed not to be hot. I don't do well in the heat. Lastly, I have access to the Tahoe course. It's just a few hours drive from where I live, so I'm planning to get up there as many weekends as possible.

So what are your thoughts? What am I missing? I know there are some obvious things like learning how to pace myself with power and nutrition. Anything else?

As always, thanks a ton!

Why are you doing your long runs at 6:28 pace? You are probably killing your bike workouts running this fast. I'm pretty sure you will ask most top AGers and they aren't running 6:28 pace on their long runs. It looks like you need some endurance training on the run. You have a fast HM time but your marathon time is slow compared to your HM time. I would cap your long run at 15-16 miles and focus on running at least 6 days a week and building mileage into the 45-50 mpw range. I would have one tempo run per week and the rest easy pace. Maybe throw a few miles in your long run at marathon pace.

Also, you need to focus on the bike. Just try to get your FTP up. Ride hard as much as possible.
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Re: Another "help me KQ" thread [krez] [ In reply to ]
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krez wrote:
Much like the "help me with my fit" threads, the "long shot at Kona" threads seem to be the theme of the month. Normally I wouldn't bite, but like most people, I want to make sure all of my bases are covered in order to have the best possible chance. I'm hoping this isn't too hard since I feel like I'm on the right path here.

History:
This will be my fifth season doing triathlon. Before doing triathlon, I ran a handful of marathons (8). My best was a 3:09, but none of them were done very seriously. I swam in high school, and I'm extremely comfortable in the water.
Season 1 (2010): Warmup to tris. Nothing serious.
S2: Three 70.3's - Qualified for WC.
S3: Three 70.3's + IMFL (10:36)
S4: IMLT (11:16 - 6th in AG - M25-29)
S5: Current season - Gearing up for IMLT again. Raced collegiate nationals (2:02) and Alcatraz (2:31).

My goal for this year is to qualify at IM Lake Tahoe which is currently 14 weeks out. My training currently consists of: Swim 2-3 times per week. Bike as much as possible with two big rides on the weekends. Run every day with a long run on Wednesday. I just started my long runs this week (14.5 miles @6:28/mi.) I have been putting in back-to-back long rides on the weekends for a few weeks now, but I wanted to delay the long runs as long as possible since that's the greatest source of injury for me.

Swim:
As I said before, I'm very comfortable in the water. I did a 59:59 at Florida in 2012 and a 1:06 at Tahoe. The 1:06 at Tahoe was due to cold (sleeveless wetsuit) and navigation issues (steam coming off the water.) I don't anticipate the weather being as bad this year, but if it is, naturally I'm a bit more ready for it since I've been through the worst last year. I also have full sleeve wetsuit this year.

Bike:
This has notoriously been my weakness which is why I've been putting as much time into this as possible. I do have a power meter, but I probably don't use it as much as I should (I feel like this will most likely be the biggest source of feedback.)

Run:
This is probably my strength. I have a long history of running. More recently, my half marathon PR is a 1:20:20 and my 10k PR is 37:40 (this was coming off back to back riding days 85mi + 90mi, so my legs were a bit tired.)

Lifestyle:
Flexible job, no girlfriend, no kids. I pretty much have the ideal lifestyle for this kind of stuff.

Coach:
Mostly just consulting with my college triathlon coaches, but I don't have a personal coach. My pride tells me that I want to do this on my own. I also would prefer to save a bit of money if possible.

Ace in the hole: I feel like my ace in the hole is a training camp five weeks out. It's a 12 day camp (finishing three weeks out from the race) where we'll be running, biking, and swimming as much as possible. I've been cautioned that the daily average on the bike is ~90 miles. If I can survive/complete this camp and recover in time, I feel like this is the greatest possible boost for Tahoe. Quite honestly, this camp is more scary than the race itself.

Vitals:
Age - 29 (last year in M25-29 - terrified of aging up which is why I am trying hard to KQ this year.)
Height - 5'10.5"
Weight - ~152-155

Why Tahoe:
I feel like the course suits me well. Elevation doesn't seem to have much of an effect on me. It's a non-saltwater swim (I hate the ocean.) The bike is hilly which favors my average or slightly smaller frame. The run course is flat, and I'm notoriously slow at running hills. It's almost guaranteed not to be hot. I don't do well in the heat. Lastly, I have access to the Tahoe course. It's just a few hours drive from where I live, so I'm planning to get up there as many weekends as possible.

So what are your thoughts? What am I missing? I know there are some obvious things like learning how to pace myself with power and nutrition. Anything else?

As always, thanks a ton!


You had a decent result at Alcatraz tis year, your bike and swim splits were't that bad. I think with a solid bike training protocol you should be right in there. The problem with your AG is two fold. One there are only 2-3 slots. The other is there will be one or two in your AG who show up and throw down nearly pro levels times.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
Last edited by: Bryancd: Jun 15, 14 8:44
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