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Am I just kicking a dead al frame?
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Hi. Just wanted to ask for opinions about whether to upgrade my tri-bike or wait for a while and buy a new one. I'm currently riding a trek speed concept 2.5 with apex groupset. I think I have about 12000km on it ( about half outdoors and half on the trainer). I have mavic xyrium wheels on it atm. Bought used and I think they have about 20000km on them. I just got an new roadbike with full force 22, and omg the shifting. It just works. So now all of a sudden  I'm not that impressed with my apex :D Recently I've also had some issues with my rear break.

If I'd like to I could get a new bike for next season, but I don't like spending money unless I have to. I'd rather get a new mtb to get out more in the autumn. 7 months on the trainer did some really bad things to my mental stability :) I missed all of last season due to a streasfracture, and I had to start running all over again. Everything ia looking good at the moment, but I'd hate buying a new bike only to quit the sport. I was considerimg getting flo wheels, but I saw some used hed h3 for a pretty reasonable price, and I really like the look of them. The hub is 10s, so that would leave me stuck with 10s groupsets. I guess I could get a new 10s rival/force set for cheap and get the h3 wheels. But I don't know how much the frame would hold me back. I'm a fop racer in my ag (25-29), at least on a national level. I'm kinda weak on the bike (or at least I was 2 years ago). I race at about 140lbs. I have no idea what my ftp is as my power reads about 40-50 watts lower on the trainer. Np for my last trainingrides was about 190-200 watts for 80km including about 30km of transition riding with slow riding, lots of stopping and surges.

Is it worth upgrading a frame like this? Would I benefit from a "superbike"? I really like my trek, but all this would set me back about 1500e including wheels. Am I just kicking a dead horse?
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Re: Am I just kicking a dead al frame? [jpanula] [ In reply to ]
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I'd say keep the Trek. As long as it fits you well and you're comfortable on it that it.

There are some decent, affordable things you can do to bring some new life into the bike you have. I'm a budget conscious triathlete though so I say use what you've already got as much as you can.

That said, I think the MTB is a great idea. Breaking up the monotony of the same type of riding all the time is good for ... .everything.
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Re: Am I just kicking a dead al frame? [jpanula] [ In reply to ]
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Questions. Have you replaced all the cables and cable housing on that Trek and tuned in the shifters and brakes? Also have you had the rear brake cleaned? Mine didn't work well (the rear) and my bike shop guy took it apart and cleaned it and it works great (a cheap Tektro). Is you chain and cassette worn or still good? Shifting shouldn't be bad on that bike even with Apex. My old 9spd Tiagra shifts flawlessly, when I change out the cables and make sure things aren't worn out.

Ian
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Re: Am I just kicking a dead al frame? [tkos] [ In reply to ]
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tkos wrote:
Questions. Have you replaced all the cables and cable housing on that Trek and tuned in the shifters and brakes? Also have you had the rear brake cleaned? Mine didn't work well (the rear) and my bike shop guy took it apart and cleaned it and it works great (a cheap Tektro). Is you chain and cassette worn or still good? Shifting shouldn't be bad on that bike even with Apex. My old 9spd Tiagra shifts flawlessly, when I change out the cables and make sure things aren't worn out.


From what I read of your post, the advice above is spot on. The reason shifting gets more difficult on a bike is the cable housings get full of grit.

I really like the Shimano complete shift cable sets for replacement, it includes everything you need. Purchase a set of cable cutters and use the old housings as a template. I often skip doing the brakes but I'm lazy like that. More often than not, simply replacing the last bit of housing on the RD will cure a host of problems, it's where all the dirt enters.

New cables, clean the chain and lightly oil, clean the crud out of the cogs and throw on some fresh tires and it's good as new.
Last edited by: jroden: Apr 15, 15 5:19
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Re: Am I just kicking a dead al frame? [jpanula] [ In reply to ]
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i would keep it and just replace the parts that are needed. i just purchased a newer bike, but the bike it replaced was a 2008 trek E7 with over 20K on it. The E7 is still going to be used a lot.

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, covered in scars, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming 'hell yeah', what a ride.
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Re: Am I just kicking a dead al frame? [jpanula] [ In reply to ]
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yep.

replace cables, service / replace BB as appropriate, service headset, service rear derailleur pulleys, clean everything really well, lube all the bits that need lube, and it'll work as good as new. Unless it is actually broken or doesn't fit, there's no real reason to upgrade the frame other than fashion (or aero if you feel like the placing is important).

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Last edited by: JasoninHalifax: Apr 15, 15 6:29
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Re: Am I just kicking a dead al frame? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the input. I have tried to keep it clean, and I'm going to change all the cables. I just think there is a significant difference in performance between force and apex. I have spent hours adjusting my fd and rd, and it's never perfect. Then I picked out the force and it was just spot on. And I had a look at the sram shifters that stay in the same position when changing gears. I guess it's more a question of comfort and joy of riding :) I'm just afraid that 10s is a dead end. On the other hand if I go for a new groupset and wheels I could just get a new frame at some point in the distant future. And considering the new 1x11 hype and forced moving into
Discbreak territory git might be good to jold wait a while and see where technology goes.
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Re: Am I just kicking a dead al frame? [jpanula] [ In reply to ]
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Brake, brake, it's a brake, not a break.

Pet peeve.

-------------------------------
´Get the most aero and light bike you can get. With the aero advantage you can be saving minutes and with the weight advantage you can be saving seconds. In a race against the clock both matter.´

BMANX
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Re: Am I just kicking a dead al frame? [jpanula] [ In reply to ]
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jpanula wrote:
Thanks for the input. I have tried to keep it clean, and I'm going to change all the cables. I just think there is a significant difference in performance between force and apex. I have spent hours adjusting my fd and rd, and it's never perfect. Then I picked out the force and it was just spot on. And I had a look at the sram shifters that stay in the same position when changing gears. I guess it's more a question of comfort and joy of riding :) I'm just afraid that 10s is a dead end. On the other hand if I go for a new groupset and wheels I could just get a new frame at some point in the distant future. And considering the new 1x11 hype and forced moving into
Discbreak territory git might be good to jold wait a while and see where technology goes.


Don't say that. All my bikes are still 9s....

and 1x11? Puhleeeze. I was running 1x8 back in 2001...

Anyway, not to be dismissive, since I don't know the SRAM lineup as well, but in the Shimano world, the rear derailleur doesn't matter once you get to 105, and you'd have a hard time discerning differences below that level either. The shifters matter, but the RD doesn't. The DA is a bit lighter and better looking than Ultegra or 105, and that's about it. For tri-bikes, they are all the same shifter, essentially zero compelling reason to get DA over 105 on a tri-bike, especially if you aren't using the crank (which doesn't matter either).

I'm guessing that SRAM is pretty similar. If you are having trouble adjusting your RD, then look at the derailleur hanger alignment and cables, and check for damage to the derailleur.

The FD is a bit more finicky and there could be differences between component levels. But they're also relatively cheap, just swap that part out if it really doesn't work. But double check the setup first.

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Last edited by: JasoninHalifax: Apr 17, 15 5:05
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Re: Am I just kicking a dead al frame? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Don't say that. All my bikes are still 9s....

Me too. Plenty of gears.

I agree that Apex and 105 level are perfectly fine in function. IME cheaper Shimano derailleurs wear out sooner than DA, but they work fine until they do. I have a DA 7700 with ~100k miles in all sorts of weather that is still going strong. I don't know how long Apex can be expected to last. The LBS guys seem to think Sram has poor longevity compared to Shimano.

OP... cables and housing are almost always the cause of poor shifting.

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Re: Am I just kicking a dead al frame? [jpanula] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with most of the people here, keep the bike, upgrade the parts. I would get a racing set of wheels too. Ride the Mavics for training, and race on some Flo's (if you can get them). If you are happy with the frame, keep it, I don't think you will see as much gain from a new frame as you would like.
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Re: Am I just kicking a dead al frame? [jpanula] [ In reply to ]
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jpanula wrote:
Is it worth upgrading a frame like this? Would I benefit from a "superbike"? I really like my trek, but all this would set me back about 1500e including wheels. Am I just kicking a dead horse?

You like the Trek? Keep it. A superbike will save you more time than it will save someone with an FTP at 300+, but it's still not a huge amount of time for the money you'll outlay. And Apex is a perfectly solid group to ride. Give it a quick tune up and while you'll still notice a difference between that and the new Force22, it won't affect your performances any. Don't waste your money upgrading 10s (either to 10s rival/force or to 11s). If you're planing to race on a national scale and make a name for yourself, then you can consider a new bike. But honestly, the time savings are only a couple minutes in the best conditions. I race on an old AL frame and love the thing. I know I'll be faster on a faster bike, but for a half, my run has 15+ minutes of improvement in it that I should focus on first (and about 10 min on the run for an Oly based on my last performance).
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Re: Am I just kicking a dead al frame? [xc800runner] [ In reply to ]
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Thaks for the further comments. I think I'll stick with my frame for now. Might get a new fd as I just can't get it right, and it still had some problems after my lbs checked the bike. I suspect it might have taken a hit at some point.

The bike-leg is by far the place for me to make up some time, but new wheels and an aero helmet will have to do for now. My run this season just won't be what it was two years ago, and I don't see the point of spending all that money unless I can race to my full potiental. Nice to see that everyone isn't jumping on every bandwagon :)
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