You need to post the same picture with your helmet on.
Unless you plan on racing without one.
Where you put your head with and without can be a world of difference.

+1 for seeing a pic of helmet/head position. Have you tried fitting an aero bottle between the arms like a Profile Design Razor bottle/Bontrager Aero Bottle/etc? Frodeno does that iirc.

Seems your seat is too low. Meaning your knee is under 90 degrees.

Also seems you knee is in front of your foot which I have been told is a no no.

.

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What handlebars are you using? Me likey! And is that a Tri-rig stem?

hang your washing out :D

Before UCI banned BTA set ups Tony Martin IIRC had an arundel or similar bottle between the arms like you do. (back in 2011 or 2012 for world champs)

If he could make it work with tight arms I think most could. Nice set up.

Maurice

Nothing on the setup; as an engineer I'm sure you've analysed significantly! Nice website Iain, and good luck this season!

Maurice... got a, probably, stupid question for ya. For a short TT (not tri), is it more aero to have a BTA bottle between my arms(even if its empty) than not? Assuming I keep the same fit/set-up I use for tris, etc etc.

Wow lots of things to think about, thanks all I'll try to do this in order!

TriBryan:
I know - a large oversight on my part but the helmet is at home (i.e the UK) and I'm in Spain, I couldn't get it in my luggage. I'll update in a few weeks when I get a chance to collect it. I'm planning on shrugging as much as possible during training then when I get to run the helmet relaxing it until the tail is just touching my back. Not ideal but there you go.

GreenPlease:
Thanks I'll look into that, my arms at the minute are touching almost their entire length but I could create a gap. Question though - From the Cervelo tests IIRC BTA is better than not and where I have it should be 0 gain or loss. But if the BTA is an aero bottle is this still the same?

h20fun:
Winging through the fit video I did, I though exactly that on both points. RE seat height - I could raise it a touch esp now I have shorter cranks. However, I've always assumed that the reason not to have a low seat is loss of power and all things being equal the lower the torso the lower the frontal area the and lower the drag. I've not noticed a significant loss in power with this height so I'm not sure of the advantage of raising it? [Caveat - I made a bunch of changes at once at the start of the year so I don't actually know if I would be miles ahead power wise of my former setup (20mm higher on the saddle) if I raised the saddle. I can't compare to a road bike as I always ride this but I'm not far off PB for my FTP (368W now vs 380W) at a much earlier stage in the training cycle (also now hub measured vs crank measured before - and no I didn't correlate!)]

RE: Knee in front of foot - it is very much so and outside of normal limits. I've ridden with the 7.5mm less overhang (172.5mm crank) all year and haven't experienced any issues though? In my mind I wasn't too worried as if I've effectively rotated my road position fwd 45Deg there is likely to be a good overhang at 3 o'clock if I'm dead over the top for the road bike and it's likely to be dead over the top between 4 and 5 o'clock (which it is.) Also coming back more on the saddle closes the hip angle. But I have to admit ignorance on if most of the above is the right thing or not?

nickag:
Specifically a set from: http://www.colbertcycles.com/ although not the ones shown on the site (but the ones on the TT bike in the picture. You can find similar off ebay direct from the manufacturer. Low cost, carbon and good adjust-ability as long as you need some rise. The colour is custom as is the rest of the frame-set however. Yes it is a tririg stem also, although I may change to a normal stem and drill though the bars + stem to route a full outer brake cable through the bars and stem to the brake.

coates_hbk:
Was waiting to finish my morning swim before washing it all now done!

mauricemaher:
Thanks and as above really - is there a good chance it'll be faster than behind the saddle?

JerseyBigfoot:
Thank you very much although more like as an engineer over analysed the hell out of it and missed the crucial part! I don't have the time for aero testing or the want to spend the capital on a tunnel session so winging it a bit!

Iain

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IMO I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with having your knee in front of your foot unless it's costing you somewhere else.

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The lumpy tape should go. Get some skateboard deck tape and use a small amount on the hand grips. Also get a return to center shifter. Other tan that the bike is pretty clean.

Helmet and skin suit choice is probably the only big area for improvement/testing

I am curious to know what you are doing for a chain catcher on the front.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Bar tape is duct tape over electrical (smooth) I'll remove the top layer for races which will get rid of the wrinkles. It's moderately grippy which with the hills round here is required for training!

R2c shifter is a big investment for me, I'm running a non indexed shifter and a 10speed mech on an 11speed cassette (I'm cheap and it works!) I'll see if I can adjust my hand position to shroud the shifter more.

Helmet is a Bell Javelin, it's a cheap 'best guess' really. I don't have time to aerotest (if I did I'd add more swim sessions for better ROI!) Suit is specified by my governing body for major races, it's sleeveless and not the best, I'll do some updated pictures with it once I've figured out the best way to support it.

Ninja edit: It's a narrow-wide chainring so the chain catcher is a wing and a prayer -about to see if it works!

Iain

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Thats kind of what I was hoping, I'm off to test ride so if my power is rubbish I may change!

Iain

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Someone on ST has tested the turned in brake levers and found them to be slower, I just can't remember who...

You will likely get better answers from others (desert dude and Jim at ERO have looked at this a lot individually), my understanding with BTA is that based on testing it depends a lot on hand position and extension type. From what I've read ski bends put the hands in a better position to hide the bottle.

Maurice

I'd be very interested in seeing some data on this as I can't find any myself.

My basis for it was two fold, 1 it narrows my shoulders when using the base bar so more aero for descending (a non point for my races however as all flat courses.) 2 my levers aren't particularly aerodynamic to my eye, so I worked on the assumption of reduced frontal area being better. Thought being out on their own they are a bit of a brick where as inboard they can at least tuck part of the bar into their large wake reducing drag from the part of the bar shrouded by them.

So I'm kind of on the fence, I wouldn't have tucked them in if the levers were super aero as I can't see a benefit there, but they are very far from super aero!

Iain

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Typically a BTA is a watt to 3 savings, typically. I've seen it go the other way a few times but more often than not it's a savings. I just hate it when I'm in the not category

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The advantage of BTA is it fills the gap behind your hands. If the forearms are already touching, just go with one behind the seat.

Turn the levers down; there's little/no savings and braking will improve. Look at more aero levers, like the 3Ts

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I think jeffp recently tested levers turned in at A2 wind tunnel. I don't recall if he posted or addressed results. I think he raced with them like that later the same day he tested. This is going from memory so I may not have the details correct...

Turns out you were very right RE seat felt like I was riding a childs bike, up 5mm now. Thanks!

Iain

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RE bottle this is my thought exactly. I'm yet to be convinced that it's not too much of a risk to try a BTA with current setup. I did originally base the bars round a traditional BTA set up as that's what I always used but that made me far less narrow than now. I think after riding it an aero bottle BTA would probably hit me in the chin quite a bit and I need somewhere new to put the Garmin as it doesn't fit on the stem with the pads at this height. So garmin on a mount on the extensions and bottle as is I think!

RE levers - I'll turn them down as the overwhelming weight of opinion is for that way. And at least I won't loose much as everyone else runs them this way. New levers are probably a no go as the bike's probably only got a handful of races left to do so I'm not keen on putting more money into it. I've just about kept costs = to money generated from selling bits so far and I'm keen on keeping bike expenditure to £0.00!

Iain

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I would find something to sell (you are a major cheapskate) and get some new brake levers. Those levers are basically 2 square inches of frontal area with the Cd of a flat plate. You really can't do worse!

Yeah I know I am! But for some thing that may or may not save an infinitesimal amount of time they are not doing well on the £/cda reduction ratio. Certainly not high enough to want to spend 3 weeks worth of food on them!

Iain

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As you have nipped and tucked your tri suit have you considered arm warmers.
Somewhere I am sure I have read that there are a few watts of savings there.