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Advice for quieter drivetrain
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Shimano R7000 mechanical drivetrain. When I am in a cog at the back that is halfway up the block or more (i.e., inboard), the drivetrain makes a decent amount of noise, and the more inboard I go, the louder it is. It's just steady noise...no grinding, clicking, or anything sinister. It just seems that as the RD cage gets stretched/extended with the lower gears, it's just...noisy. Loudest is big ring and 3rd from lowest (the 23t on an 11-28) gear. I don't cross chain any more than that but that's presumably when the RD is under the highest "stretched" condition. In little ring (i.e. when RD is able to "relax" and not be so stretched out) noise goes way down.

Is there any way to mitigate this? Is it unreasonable to expect a silent or near silent mechanical drivetrain when the cage is stretched out? Would any of the following help: upgraded pulley wheels, nicer RD (dura ace 9100), any setup particulars, lubrication of any particular pivots of the RD? I do have some off brand parts: chain is KMC X11, and chainrings are praxis. The noise is not ubiquitous across all gears so don't think these parts are culprits but just to get all info out there about my setup.

My LBS has looked at this. Which is to say I don't have any normal noisemaker culprits with the setup like an out of whack b screw or improper indexing. Everything is as it should be in the eyes of a bike shop...but it's just noisy in those gear combos. Anything I can do?
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Post deleted by dtoce [ In reply to ]
Re: Advice for quieter drivetrain [dtoce] [ In reply to ]
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Can you elaborate why you think this would solve the issue since the noise is not consistent across all gears and doesn't seem to be emanating from the chain?

No stranger to the thinking of waxed chains but without more, feels like you're trolling me.
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Re: Advice for quieter drivetrain [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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Not trolling at all. x2 on wax if you don't having anything "wrong," and it's just standard drivetrain noise.

Assuming the LBS checked for chain length, hangar alignment, and proper tuning, not much else to do. Maybe try different wheels. Deep, stiff carbon wheels tend to amplify drivetrain noise.
Last edited by: trail: Dec 28, 23 8:12
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Re: Advice for quieter drivetrain [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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Rear derailleur hanger alignment and a waxed chain.
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Re: Advice for quieter drivetrain [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond wrote:
Rear derailleur hanger alignment and a waxed chain.

Wouldn't hanger alignment manifest itself with noise all across the range of gears and not just big ring near top of cassette?

I am also curious as to the theory of why waxed chain is the only solution here. Switching to waxed chain involves a lot of time, effort, money, and if I do this I want to be sure I know why I'm doing it and why it'll solve the problem.

Or, let's put this question backwards to the waxed chain advocates - why is my non-waxed but otherwise properly lubed chain noisy in only these gear configurations?
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Re: Advice for quieter drivetrain [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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PBT_2009 wrote:
Wouldn't hanger alignment manifest itself with noise all across the range of gears and not just big ring near top of cassette?

Hanger misalignment often causes isses that worsen the farther you go in one direction on the cassette. If looking from the rear if you see the chain dead center on the cog teeth at one side of the cassette, and then shift to the other side and see the chain isn't as well centered on the teeth, 90% of the time that's a hanger alignment issue.

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I am also curious as to the theory of why waxed chain is the only solution here. Switching to waxed chain involves a lot of time, effort, money, and if I do this I want to be sure I know why I'm doing it and why it'll solve the problem.

Buy liquid wax lube. Clean chain reasonably well by hand with a regular chain cleaner solution, then apply. It's not any harder than any other lube. Ideally you'd go through the hardcore "stripping" phase, but if you don't care about immediate efficiency gains, not a huge deal. Eventually with regular cleaning the petroleum lube will go away.

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Or, let's put this question backwards to the waxed chain advocates - why is my non-waxed but otherwise properly lubed chain noisy in only these gear configurations?

The mostly likely possibilities are hanger alignment, RD tuning, chain length (too short), or drivetrain cleanliness. Eliminate those as options. Any competent LBS would have identified those, but you asked...
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Re: Advice for quieter drivetrain [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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I’m not a troll-now or ever. I kind of resent that comment-

I just commented that I’ve found that my waxed chains are noticeably quieter. I deleted my post and wasn’t going to respond, but thought about it a bit.

Now here’s the complete list of all the crap you should have done to investigate:
Check the crank bolts
Check the bottom bracket
Check the chain rings
Check the rear skewer
Check the chain
Check the derailer
Check the pulley wheels
Check the frame to make sure there’s not a crack
Check the rear cassette to make sure there’s not a bend in it

Sometimes just minor misalignments can cause noise in one gear and not another.

Good luck
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Re: Advice for quieter drivetrain [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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Waxed or not, a Shimano branded chain will be an improvement. It’s also popular to run a 12 speed Shimano chain on an 11 speed drive train for reduced noise and better rear shifting, but I tried this on a bike once and it ruined my FD shifting. You could try a DA cassette, might help.

Dimond Bikes Superfan
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Re: Advice for quieter drivetrain [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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ericlambi wrote:
You could try a DA cassette, might help.

The Dura Ace titanium block is louder, in my experience. You're right about the chain, though, I've found Shimano to be quieter than 3rd-party.
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Re: Advice for quieter drivetrain [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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"Wouldn't hanger alignment manifest itself with noise all across the range of gears and not just big ring near top of cassette?"


No.
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Re: Advice for quieter drivetrain [dtoce] [ In reply to ]
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sorry. but the first post literally gave no explanation and wasn't any help. thanks for explaining more i appreciate it! and also to everyone chiming in here.

popping it in the stand, I'm not convinced that the derailleur hanger is perfectly straight. the cage is just ever so slightly twisted, but i'm not sure if this is my brain playing tricks on me. it's very subtle. perhaps i assumed the LBS looked at/considered this in the noise equation, but maybe they didn't.

based on all this - seems like my best bet is to take to LBS to specifically get derailleur hanger looked at. and perhaps get a shimano chain to replace the KMC one. and i can consider a drip wax lube if that still doesn't solve it to my satisfaction.
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Re: Advice for quieter drivetrain [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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You could buy a rear derailleur hanger alignment tool and check it yourself for less than what a bike shop would charge.

Also, I am a big fan of Wippermann chains and their Connex quick link.
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Re: Advice for quieter drivetrain [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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Not withstanding all of the above discussion, I've run many bikes for many years, mostly self built, and all mechanical. And when at my peak commuting was doing twice weekly maintenence to keep on top of the drivetrain wear.

My point being that you've got the main mechanical things covered above, and in reality you have a metal chain running around metal cassette and metal (in your case) chainrings, all held in alignment by a spring loaded assembly of plastic jockey wheels. Your aspiration of near silent just isn't realistic in real world.

However, when I swapped to hot dip waxing a year or so ago then it was the first time I had truly silent drivetrain (11sp ultegra). Compared to my old regime of chain cleaning which wasn't overly fussy for normal riding, then I don't find the wax dipping any more time consuming for rewaxing. I have 2 chains for each bike, and swap between, dipping two at a time. As soon as I start hearing the drivetrain I know it's time for a redip - every 300-500km based on weather.

Of course you can also get a quiet chain/drive by coating with thicker oil, but that will be slow and quiet, and also need lots of regular cleaning to avoid it turning to grinding paste.
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Re: Advice for quieter drivetrain [PBT_2009] [ In reply to ]
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If you don't want to go down the hot or drip wax route because of the extensive deep cleaning required, then have a look at silca's synergetic wet lube. You can apply it to the new Shimano chain and it will gradually replace the factory grease. Very quiet, efficient and doesn't get as dirty as other wet lubes.
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