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A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black
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Ok, I sent Dan a massage on Friday but I never heard back so I didn't want to violate his new rule regarding publishing data on here, thus I have posted the first bit of data from the Wind Tunnel Test here. Hopefully that is ok otherwise feel free to pull this thread Dan.

Please not this is just start. I will go back and update, add more data, links, raw data etc but give me some time. This is just being released right now because a bunch of people have asked what tire they should run and I want to nip the inquiries in the bud.

Given the lack of OLD 23 SS availability it seems like the Corsa Speed is probably a pretty good choice of tire.


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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Daaaayuum old ss you so fine. Thanks for sharing

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Old SS FTW! I have two SS 23s tires left and they're going to pry them from my cold dead hands. Last month when I got home from a race I realized I forgot my front wheel in the parking garage. I drove 30mi back to get it and all I could think about was how I was going to replace that Conti SS tire :) Screw the $500 FLO CC wheel... I want my SS back!
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Thomas Gerlach wrote:
Ok, I sent Dan a massage on Friday but I never heard back so I didn't want to violate his new rule regarding publishing data on here, thus I have posted the first bit of data from the Wind Tunnel Test here. Hopefully that is ok otherwise feel free to pull this thread Dan.

Please not this is just start. I will go back and update, add more data, links, raw data etc but give me some time. This is just being released right now because a bunch of people have asked what tire they should run and I want to nip the inquiries in the bud.

Given the lack of OLD 23 SS availability it seems like the Corsa Speed is probably a pretty good choice of tire.

Cool. Can we get the y-axis in terms of CdA? Or else indicate air speed and density that the power values represent?

If you'd like, I could create a combined aero+Crr estimate for the Corsa Speed and the old SS23 (since I have Crr values for them).



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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sp1ke wrote:
Old SS FTW! I have two SS 23s tires left and they're going to pry them from my cold dead hands. Last month when I got home from a race I realized I forgot my front wheel in the parking garage. I drove 30mi back to get it and all I could think about was how I was going to replace that Conti SS tire :) Screw the $500 FLO CC wheel... I want my SS back!

Just remember that once you take into account Crr, the CS most likely "wins" over the old SS23 out to at least 5d of yaw angle (if not higher)...



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Also...is this with fixture tare removed or included?

I find it interesting that the drag of the CS on that wheel goes up between 5 and 10d of yaw angle. In my Win Tunnel test with the 24C Turbo Cotton, the values continued to decline out to 10d.




http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Did you happen to measure the widths of tires when inflated? Wondering how much is due to shape/construction and how much is just that narrower tires are more aero.

I would love to see the results combined with Tom A's Crr data. Seems like that Vittoria tire has everything going for it other than being easy to mount with a tube. Maybe that is going to be what finally makes this tubeless for the road thing get some traction.

/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]
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kjmcawesome wrote:
Did you happen to measure the widths of tires when inflated? Wondering how much is due to shape/construction and how much is just that narrower tires are more aero.

I would love to see the results combined with Tom A's Crr data. Seems like that Vittoria tire has everything going for it other than being easy to mount with a tube. Maybe that is going to be what finally makes this tubeless for the road thing get some traction.

Yup...that's what I've been thinking. Someone finally figured out how to make a tubeless tire with a decent casing...



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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My eyeball combination with Crr indicates this as a clear win for the CS.
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [trail] [ In reply to ]
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The power of the CRR compels you!!!! :)

Disclaimer: I often promise photos fully intending to provide them and then get distracted. Sorry in advance :)
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the data. Too bad I'm in New Zealand already. ;-(

Actually, I don't think it would have changed my choice at all. What is clear from both Tom's test and yours, is that the Jet+ wheels are very sensitive to width around the 26C range for a mounted tired. Below that, and you're good. Above that, and your drag heads south. That's why a slightly narrower Supersonic outperforms a wider one and the 25C TT is a piece of crap (aerodynamically). in short, none of the best rolling tires are aerodynamically optimal with this wheel.

Hence my choice of the old 808 with 20C Crono tubular. Still the best combination of aerodynamics and Crr around.

It's a shame you didn't test some narrower tires. I think there might be hope for the new 20C SS.


I
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [jens] [ In reply to ]
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H3
Hed deep
808 (pre dimple)
Campy shamal
Velocity deep v
iO
Ultimate narrow rim showdown 2017?

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
Podium Sports Racing - http://www.podiumsportsmed.com/team/
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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Morelock wrote:
H3
Hed deep
808 (pre dimple)
Campy shamal
Velocity deep v
iO
Ultimate narrow rim showdown 2017?


My 808s are actually Z8s, which are a couple of generations post-dimple. I do think there is still promise in the older Hed wheels however, the H3 in particular. This whole business of rotating drag intrigues me.
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Would you expect a 23 mm GP TT to be comparable aerodynamically to the new 23 mm SS?
Last edited by: Scott_B: Apr 20, 17 19:11
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [jens] [ In reply to ]
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jens wrote:



Hence my choice of the old 808 with 20C Crono tubular. Still the best combination of aerodynamics and Crr around.

Maybe if you're confident you'll never see high yaw. And you don't mind the harsher ride.

My A-race TT last year had me over 10 deg yaw (as estimated by BestBikeSplit) for 47 out of 48 minutes. The old 808 wouldn't have been a good choice out there. While a wider wheel, say the 808FC, gives up very little at low yaw (I'm not totally convinced your combo would win at zero yaw), but can win big at higher yaw.

...and I was averaging 29MPH in that TT, so it's not about me going *that* slow. 29MPH is decently fast.
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Scott_B] [ In reply to ]
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 No because it is wider.

/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]
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I thought the new SS is the GP TT without the Vectran belt.
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
My eyeball combination with Crr indicates this as a clear win for the CS.

If you could only get it on and off the rim, they would be the obvious choice at this point.
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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kileyay wrote:
trail wrote:
My eyeball combination with Crr indicates this as a clear win for the CS.

If you could only get it on and off the rim, they would be the obvious choice at this point.

Well how about they just make it a goddamn clincher instead of tubeless and we call it the best tire ever?

/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]
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They have one, I guess it's just slow?
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Out of curiosity, can I ask why you chose the variable pressures for each tire? Also, how did you measure the pressure?


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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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I wonder how much of this I can extrapolate to my Hed C2 rims which I think are 2mm narrower across the brake track. We've seen data for the Flo rims but they are also wider.

For my Renn disc I'd like to think I just go for the Corsa because it is in a P3C and the leading edge is fared. But I recall somebody clever telling me that the trailing edge matters aswell.

Damn, what to do.

Thanks for sharing Thomas.
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Scott_B] [ In reply to ]
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Scott_B wrote:
I thought the new SS is the GP TT without the Vectran belt.
It may still be correct since TT was tested at 25 and SS at 23.
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Canadian wrote:
Out of curiosity, can I ask why you chose the variable pressures for each tire? Also, how did you measure the pressure?


We chose various pressures because in our opinion you are going to ride the the tires at different pressures. I definitely realize there is no true apples-to-apples comparison and everyone will choose slightly different pressures. In addition the Enve 7 data will be coming out as well. We ended up doing two wheels and three tires instead of the three wheels and two tires.

Fwiw, we also tried to match valve extenders and keep them as short as possible. The HED JET+ we used a 72mm tube (60mm depth) and on the Enve we used 82mm (71mm depth).

Had I had more time I would have reached out to Josh to use a Silca pump for testing, and although there was a Silca pump there it was old and the dial was too small to read properly. We ended up using my Topeak Joe Blow. I realize it is $40 and this is the second one of these I have had in 8 years or so. I consider it to be a great pump, easy to use, and based on the Amazon reviews others tend to concur. As for the accuracy, I am sure it isn't accurate as the Silca pump. I can say I did some pressure testing last year of a different sort and the pump seemed consistent. I was measuring # of strokes to get to a certain PSI.


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Last edited by: Thomas Gerlach: Apr 21, 17 18:32
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:
Thomas Gerlach wrote:
Ok, I sent Dan a massage on Friday but I never heard back so I didn't want to violate his new rule regarding publishing data on here, thus I have posted the first bit of data from the Wind Tunnel Test here. Hopefully that is ok otherwise feel free to pull this thread Dan.

Please not this is just start. I will go back and update, add more data, links, raw data etc but give me some time. This is just being released right now because a bunch of people have asked what tire they should run and I want to nip the inquiries in the bud.

Given the lack of OLD 23 SS availability it seems like the Corsa Speed is probably a pretty good choice of tire.


Cool. Can we get the y-axis in terms of CdA? Or else indicate air speed and density that the power values represent?

If you'd like, I could create a combined aero+Crr estimate for the Corsa Speed and the old SS23 (since I have Crr values for them).

Of course Tom, I would like to provide more details. More to come and I'll get you what you need to compute the aero+crr. I also have the Enve 7 data to work thru too. Btw, I listened to your appearance on the cycling TT podcast. You kept me awake on the way up there and ENTERTAINED!!! Also, I have decided to make a permanent residence in Clermont FL. Frankly, I can't keep driving my ALL my possessions twice a year across the US and decided I need to keep one place 9-10 months where I can train and keep stuff. I don't plan to go nuts with stuff, but I would like to get a set of rollers and do some of my own testing as you have encouraged others to do.


Save: 7% on Air Relax Recovery Boots| $100 on Normatec + Now Only $1395| 15% at Trisports.com | 15% on The Most Absorbable Magnesium | 15% on Base

Blogs: Best Cheap Aero Sunglasses | My Pre-Season Blood Test Labs | Best Cheap Indoor Training Stand | My Wind Tunnel Numbers | 2x20 Wattage Progression | Wind Tunnel Testing My Bike Shoes
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