Well, I just finished this race today. Here's what I found. My Garmin Edge 500 had the bike course at 175K. My Garmin 310 had the run course at just under 41K. Something to conisider on this course though is that there are a lot of turns on both the bike and run. Sometimes the GPS's will end up cutting the corners when that is the case, but certainly not to those extents. It is likely a bit short for sure.

Still an amazing performance by Marino. It's too bad the course was short, it would have been a legendary performance otherwise.

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I have raced all over Europe at different distances and my Garmin has always registered short bike and/or run courses

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With no knowledge of the course, could road-quality have anything to do with the generally fast bikes and runs? Granted we know they are dead flat, but i've been to austria and switzerland and germany, and could see some roads allowing super fast bike times.

I'm sorry but you are out of line in your comments on this - Mario has proven his class many times ( no i dont know him or have any affiliation to him) and to publicly question the course length immediately like this shows a complete lack of class on your part - and your feeble attempt at justification (it was an amazing performance) is just that - feeble! - i'd suggest you should be deleting the post and instead posting a public appology! Should you wish to question the course length it would be appropriate to do so based on facts and figures in a separate post

This is just a question...

Are these athletes ever tested for performance enhancing drugs? Im just curious.

nobody was questioning his class

we were questioning the length of the courses like austria and roth because athletes *consistently* go a lot faster than normal at those courses.

that is completely legitimate to do and in no way speaks badly of the athletes.

why get all emotional about this? he knew he was cherry picking a fast course to go for this record.

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Question: Do WTC have guidelines about course distances?
If people are consistently reporting short (or long) courses, then WTC & the race directors would know too. Is their any directive, or WTC rule about course accuracy?

Lets admit it, triathletes love to get a PR and if they perceive it as a fast course it will help with registration #'s, no doubt. There is a reason why some people love IM Florida and Arizona, much faster courses than IMC, IMUSA and IMSG

Hmmm....

Yah, the GPS position uncertainty can create a zigzag course, reading long. But if the signal drops out, it cuts a tangent on the course -- reading short.

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"100% of the people who confuse correlation and causation end up dying."

this is more just a general reply to the tenor of this entire thread, notwithstanding a few posts that run against the grain of the discussion.
there seems to be a lot of complaint that euro courses are short, and that if these athletes raced in north america then the times would be up to half an hour slower.
i think this is total rubbish.
why? because they are better than the athletes who are typically racing in the states, and if they raced in the states (as some do) they woud crush the field.
if you consider the athletes who have recorded these fast euro times in the last decade and then compare how they have performed at kona you will see that (surpise surprise) they are the same people. you'll also see that their origin is either from australia or from europe.
what does that say? well that they are better, and go faster, and that races in the states are either soft or slow.
i remember the first time IMAZ was run there were a ridiculous number of corners in the course so as to set up a race that wouldn't inconvenience the locals. do you think that this would happen in europe?
unless i am mistaken, the course record at IMC is 8:06 by hellreigel - a smoking fast time on a moderate course. when was the last time anyone went even near that sort of result.
my argument is basically that the athletes who typically race the faster iron distance events - roth, austria, frankfurt - are the best in word and hence on a fast course they go faster. the courses may be marginally short, but 20-30 minutes? you've got to be joking.

was epo even detectable when hellriegal went that fast?

Before we spill our earl grey tea on our knickers, let's just look at some results from around the world. Here is a random list of Iron Man winners in 2010-11. You tell me if the course seems short???

Marino Vanhoenacker 7:45 Iron Man Austria
Macca 8:10 Iron man Kona

Craig Alexander – 8:19: Ironman Coeur d'Alene 2011
James Cunnama 8:15:59 Iron man Florida 2010
Schildknecht, Ronnie 08:12 Switzerland 2010
Hoffman, Ben 08:39 lake placid 2010
Fraser Cartmell 8:40 Iron Man Uk
JACOBS, Pete 08:29 Iron Man Australia
POTTS ANDY 8:15 Iron Man Cozumel
Mathias Hecht 8:32 Iron Man St. George
ZYEMTSEV, VIKTOR 8:32 Iron Man Canada

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“He is happy whose circumstances suit his temper but he is more excellent who can suit his temper to any circumstances” David Hume

I agree with you that the Europeans are faster. I did not see any Americans in the Top 10 in Austria. I have heard that IM France is not any easy course, but I did not see any Americans in the Top 10 there either.

Of course it could be logistics, the new Kona points system etc, etc.......

But Europeans do not too seem bashful about coming over here and kicking ass.

This sport needs a rivalry(ies) and a lot of shit-talking.........Slowtwitch solves half of that problem........

On a side note, I wonder if the WTC has a special financial reward for Mario setting the world record? Or, even a special financial reward for setting the course record in Kona?

Speaking of which I heard if the Raelerts go 1-2 in Kona, the spilt $1 Million (non WTC enticement)

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There's no question that Europe, as in the whole continent, has a deeper field that the USA, but the question is whether 7:45 seems suspiciously fast, as in the course seems short.

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“He is happy whose circumstances suit his temper but he is more excellent who can suit his temper to any circumstances” David Hume

I guess my point, if I can express myself clearly, is that over the last decade there has been a direct correlation between those athletes that go fast in Europe and those who win in Kona. Craig Alexander is the only exception I can think of, and that is because he hasn't raced in Europe.
From this, I think that these athletes (Macca, Van Lierde, Wellington, Vanhoenacker, Raelert etc) are doing faster times because they are faster, not as the result of shorter courses. If they were slower, then they would be beaten in Kona and then everyone could say that their performances aren't legitimate. They are the best, short courses or otherwise, and to say a 7:45 is worth 8:10 in the USA is just appalling.
And as for claims about EPO use in an earlier reply well, I am as sceptical as anyone about drug use in sport, but unless you have proof well you are just slinging mud without justification, and opeing yourself up to legal redress.
It's a shame that courses can't be measured out in triathlon as they are in running.

It is an official WTC race, So I trust that the course is marked accurately. Also, if you want to bring it down to a science, following the 'best line' over 112 miles can also knock off some distance = That's how Garmin-Cervelo won the TTT today.

I think a World Record should be celebrated. But since we live in an imperfect world that is not always the case.

He has the WR by 5 minutes. Some people would call that 'Crushing............' I am on the side of it being totally legit.

I think one of the Raelert Bros is racing Roth (next weekend?)

Perhaps some ST techo-geek can measure the course beforehand?

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**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**

I have only seen three 'bike' Garmin files so far, but all three have the bike course under 176kms (109miles), and two 'run' files, and both are are shorter than 41k.
It will be interesting to see what more files show.

I am on your side Bro. I agree with everything you just said.

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Ironman is one word. Ironman. That's all.

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Ha ha, thanks.

Also, I don't think that saying the Austria course = 8:10 USA course is accurate either. But I think it would be more accurate to say that the Austria course seems very fast compared to most other courses, by a suspiciously high amount, so suspiciously high, that it would lead one to believe that it is a short course.

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“He is happy whose circumstances suit his temper but he is more excellent who can suit his temper to any circumstances” David Hume

I don't know how smooth the road is in Klagenfurt, Austria, but the roads in Roth are absolutely awesome. The best I've ridden by far (the worst of the IM circuit
have to be IMNZ ;-))

That said, I don't know where you got that there were dead flat....Roth is not flat at all. When Steve Larsen went to Roth, he came back saying it was a lot hillier than he thought/heard and compared the course to IMLP on the bike. Austria isn't flat either on the bike.

Thank you!!
It was pretty bad - I tell people that I rode 5.43, but the road surface added 15 minutes, so I really should have gone sub 5.30.
Well... I don't really, because nobody really cares ;)

re imnz bike course:

being from nz, it always feels like you are flying when you ride in europe etc...

As I said in my previous post, I raced here in Austria yesterday, and you can see how fast times get posted here. It is HIGHLY likely that both the bike and run courses were slightly short. The bike course was likely anywhere from 3-5K short and the run course was likely 1.5K short (approx.). There are a lot of turns on both the bike and run, so you can see how a Garmin might cut the corners. Over an iron distance ride and run, you can see how this might add up.

Other factors that make this a FAST course (at least yesterday) were:

1 - The roads in Austria are awesome!! There might have only been a few K (out of the full 90K loop we did twice) that had rough pavement. Other than that, totally totally awesome road conditions!! Best I have ever ridden for that length of time.
2 - Yesterday, you could not have asked for better weather to do an Ironman. It was sunny/overcast the whole day, little to no wind and no rain. The temperatures were cool to start the day, but quickly warmed up to a very comfortable low 20's Celcius or low to mid 70's farenheit with no humidity. It was incredible.
3 - The fan support on both the bike and run was top notch. Tonnes of crowds at the top of the climbs on the bike and the run course had spectators the whole way. Very fun!!
4 - The setup of the bike course is super fast. Yes each loop has about 2,700 ft (a little over 800m) climbing on each loop, but after the climbs, the decents are moderate and allow you to pick up and hold high speeds. The scenery on the bike was incredible and I never felt bored for a second!
5 - The last 25K of the bike back into town is super fast. Mostly downhill and allows you to get your cadence up without pushing big watts. I think this leads to some fresher legs starting the run.
6 - Finally, I have no idea if the swim is short or not, but I'd say it's a fast swim. Pretty open start (mind you it did bunch up pretty good about 500m in) and once you reach the canal, the current from all the swimmers certainly helps out a lot. The water quality in this race is likely some of the best in any Ironman anywhere. It was amazing!

I'm from Canada, so doing this race comes with a pretty expensive pricetag to get here, but I would highly recommend this race to anyone. Not just to set a potential PB, but for the overall experience. It was my first IM, and it certainly was a memorable one. I had an incredible time.

This make two races for me this year where new world records (sort of anyway) were set! Boston marathon and IM Austria. I guess I've had good luck with race conditions this year.

If interested, I did 9:30 and still only came in 44th in my AG (M35-39). The winner went 8:33. That's rediculous!