In fairness he wasn't just riding close to the centre line, by all accounts he was deliberately riding along it in order to encourage cars to overtake close to him on both sides to get more of an aerodynamic boost from the passing traffic.

Stupid, dangerous and sets an extremely bad example for the sport:

At 415w AP, he would be faster than most mortals could ride. ...but to call this any kind of a 'record' when it includes a near 20km of downhill riding is a bit of a joke. Heck, I might even beat 50min on a course like this;).

The combination of Rhigos Road and the section of A465 between Hirwaun and Pontneddfechan at the beginning is a nice bonus..

Very nice gift decent on this course. A full 100watts better then I could do.

I'm more impressed that he road 19,000km this year already. That's more this year than I ridden in the last 5 years.

There are at least two 25 courses that are faster without gift hills...
Not a gimme course though as many find out.

The Strava leaderboard has 150 riders doing this course in under 50min, and some seem to be doing it on less than 300w AP. One of many examples includes #78 on the list who nailed a 48:53 on 269w! ...if this ain't a gimme course, please do tell what is!

My goodness, what kind of roads are these? Looks like an interstate if it was in the US and you wouldn't last 2 minutes riding like that

Cars?! ITT course open to traffic? What madness is this?

Pretty much.. I grew up down the valley from that course (on the Strava map, the town labeled Neath) and if I remember correctly, it's a 70mph limit dual carriageway road, with some fairly heavy truck traffic.

I wouldn't ride anywhere on it, let alone out in the middle like that. A few of my friends back home that I follow on Strava regularly ride that road as part of various routes.

Indeed, I'm not usually phased by riding around traffic at all, but I've inadvertently ended up cycling along dual carriageways a few times in my life and it's always an extremely unpleasant experience.

The closing speed of the traffic at 70+ mph is terrifying, not to mention the fact that the road surface/debris is usually bad and drivers less attentive. Riding like that is a fatality waiting to happen.

A couple of points to address here:

1. No, it's not a closed course. England has a rich heritage of time trialing. There's a lot of history but the basis is that, a while back (40-50's from memory) it was illegal to race a bike on a road, to TT's were made illegal. Of course, people carried on and gave the courses codes (k/147 etc) so that people knew what the course was and where to meet. It's now no longer illegal but that tradition has continued. However, given that almost every single cycle club in the country organises their own time trials, there is just no way they could be done on closed roads. They take place on Tuesday and Thursday evenings and, if they were closed roads, almost every single A road and B road in the country would be closed somewhere. A lot of a our road races are on open roads too, which makes things even more interesting!

2. This guy is a professional racer - he is a former Polish TT champion and rode for One Pro Cycling (Euro Pro-Continental level) last year and is riding for the Polish CCC pro team this year. Hence the huge mileage and huge power.

3. This isn't the first controversy he has faced when TT'ing. Last year he broke the 10 mile record and every photo of him had him head down (which is unlawful under time trial rules). It seems like he would rather risk crashing/dying then be slightly slower. Idiot.

4. Riding on dual carriageways is also common place in England and, once you get used the closing and passing speed of cars, is actually very safe. Unless you are riding like an absolute tool (like this guy), there is plenty of room for cars to overtake (at least one other lane), but the roads are often straight so you can be seen from a long way off. Aided more by a decent rear light, which most TT riders now use. It's certainly much safer than riding down what we call A roads, which are one lane each way roads, often with a 60mph speed limit, and often lumpy with very little visibility beyond about 30 meters due to corners, hedgerows etc. Below is a google street map of a road I drove down last night where there was a TT going on. The speed limit here varies from 40mph - 60mph and there are times where it would be easy to turn a corner and be pretty much rear ending a cyclist (imagine there is a cyclist just beyond the car in the picture). If they're doing 25 and you're doing 60, the closing speed is not that much different to on a dual carriageway, but at least on a dual carriageway there is somewhere for the car to go if that happens. Dual carriageways are safer than these roads. The organising body for time trials in the UK also has guidelines on traffic count for roads. If it is too high, it does not recommend TT's taking place on those roads.

All in all, time trialling on open roads is as safe as riding on normal roads, if not safer (you don't ride in packs), until you get a tool like this doing his best to get killed. Yes, mighty quick. But what an absolute dick.

Is there any research that backs up the often made claim that TT's are safer on dual carriageways?
Whenever I read of another tragic death on a TT it typically appears to involve a dual carriageway, but that may just be my perception bias. Which is why I'd like to see some real evidence as opposed to conjecture, as to what the relative risks are. RTTC should be able to produce something fairly easily.
My gut reaction is that dual carriageways are primarily chosen for speed, and claims of improved safety are just made up to justify using the road in question. I'd like to be proved wrong though!

Whole lot wrong with your suppositions. First being that the segment isn't the whole course so there are in fact <125 people that are sub 50 on the leaderboard. Second is that there are 2 4up TTs run on that course each season which makes a lot of people look much faster than they are. Third is that the National 25 was on the R25/3h so there are a lot of riders that wouldn't otherwise have made the trip. It also happened to be a very fast day on the R25, with many riders setting PBs. The V718 has the same reputation, but it's hasn't had anything close to the SSLL Charity 10 conditions (where comp record was set) since (quite the opposite in fact).

Taking a look at power number doesn't tell you the whole story either as you don't know if the PM in question is properly calibrated, the weight or CdA of the rider, and if they were solo or in a 4-up (I regularly see people do sub 20min 10 milers on like 56w). Both the E2/25 and A25/11 (possibly the J5/8 as well) can be faster (team comp record was set on the E2/25 earlier this year with a 45:20, 45:59, and 46:55 and Dowsett's old record was on it). Let's also not forget that there are more events on the R25/3h than the A25/11, J5/8. and E2/25 combined.

Of course you could just come out and ride it. The dollar is quite strong against the pound sterling at the moment...



There wasn't really much discussion about him riding head down last year. I can easily give you two dozen testers that consistently ride head down and have yet to be DQ'd if you want to start that discussion (let's not forget that a photo simply captures that moment in time, so to characterise an entire ride on said moment is disingenuous). You are correct in that he has had another controversy though, but that involved having a follow car (I believe on an S course) and he was DQ'd.



There is no data that backs either being safer (the information has been requested from the CTT but as of yet, nothing). I invite anyone who believes single carriageways are inherently safer to ride the L2521a. You'll change your mind in a hurry.

Perhaps the UK is more "The land of the Free"? ;-)

---

Dont complain about the results you did n't get from the training you did n't do.

Agreed, I did this event on the weekend and although I PB'd I didn't crush my previous best.

I am triathlete and have started to dabble in TTs this year and it's really opened my eyes. There are some really amazing riders with enormous FTP etc. but what's struck me most is how good people's positions are, how well their equipment is set up etc. makes triathletes look like a bunch of fools.

You certainly can't compare most TT courses with your average 'sporting' UK triathlon bike course.

Have you ever done the Blaenavon Tri? ;-)

---

29 years and counting

Not really aimed at who i've quoted but theses posts probably cover what i want to reply to.


I rode the event....(and pb'd)
It was a great day conditions wise, slight headwind out, and a slight tail/cross coming back uphill, although if he'd been off a few hours earlier, i suspect he could have been quicker as conditions deteriorated a little, drizzle and the temp dropped a few degrees.

You dont get any real benefit from the top of Rhigos anymore. It actually starts in the industrial estate, so no real momentum to carry you over the rough surface before Hirwain roundabout.
Downside is as the start is further down the old course, the finish doesnt come off at Glynneath, but carries on climbing to the base of the "gift hill"...


20km of downhill isnt a true indication of the course. Maybe 2 miles could be considered advantageous (ie f'ing fast) but it takes balls of steel to nail it. Get the wind in the wrong direction or gusting where it crosses the open part, and a wobbly at 40+ mph, and you're in a very scary place.
Sunday was the first time I've not got on the basebar in the handful of times I've ridden the course. 44mph and only 138lbs with a trispoke on the front, but was bricking it!!

It may look like a motorway but its bloody quiet esp compared to what i'm used to riding. Traffic on the day was no busier than any other.

What Marcin did was irresponsible, as well as against the rules (that he knew, he's lived and raced here long enough!), he's effectively closed the road down to 1 lane; no one's going to undertake him, so it's got to pass to the right, passing slower than they would normally by swinging out at 70mph, but the benefit will be there for longer.

There's always been a certain amount of "traffic control" when records have been broken, but with social media being readily available, any blatant stuff is pretty easy to spot. It's a pity, as no doubt he would have broken his old record.
There's no gift days, you still have to pedal (and bloody hard!)

A friend of mine who's primary 'sport' is TT's won his AG at IM Wales last year.

He had the fastest bike split of the event, and told me he thought he better back off about 2/3rds of the way round as he 'seemed to be overtaking people too easily' .

No wonder pro's like Tim Don, Rachel Joyce are seeking help from people like Matt Botterill etc.

Shhhhh, keep quiet now! If too many people listen to you I won't be able to still get FOP triathlon bike splits on modest geezer watts while in my mid-60s! The cult of "comfort" and the "triathlete bike fit" keep many triathletes committed obsessively to very high CdAs. Every now and then, against my better judgement I offer to help some stronger rider that's clearly underperforming based on their power output, and they never take me up on my offer. If they actually started emulating TTers I'd have to face up to the reality of my modest abilities, which I'm confronted with every time I do an actual TT.

I think it's interesting. When I started triathlon about 6-7 years ago there was a lot of chat about having a position that allowed you to 'run off the bike' but now I almost never hear of that and it is all about being aero. If this is the right approach then there is a lot to be learnt from the TT scene.
Pete didn't change his setup for the event.

I just don't think triathletes really get what the difference it makes, I thought I did until I started TTing.

One of my mates did the same event and he rode the same watts (within 2w NP) and he went 4 minutes quicker over 25 miles. In the last 10 miles I averaged 10w more went almost a minute slower. He has invested a lot of time and money into his position and equipment to get the best returns off his watts. When you extrapolate that to either the watts you can save or the time you save over an 70.3 or ironman it's scary stuff.

Anyway I am keeping quiet about it from now on.. I don't what other people to get it :)

Agreed! My winter project is to try to get my CDA as low as possible... I will just have to figure out how to run afterwards :)